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>Sure you do. It’s a job like everything else. Source? What's the on the job performance of those being forced to do something non-meatgrinder related? You're

>Sure you do. It’s a job like everything else. Source? What's the on the job performance of those being forced to do something non-meatgrinder related? You're probably not gonna get someone to be an efficient fighter pilot by beating them up, throwing them in a van with a gun to their head. But you can give them a rifle and order them to march since it doesn't take much skill or willingness to fight in order to be an effective bullet sponge. Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. >Jumping to conclusions isn’t critical thinking. Correct, which is why I used critical thinking instead of jumping to conclusions.

wiseowise 1y ago
Source for what? That it’s a job? If tomorrow there’s a shortage of jet pilots in Ukraine and no volunteers - they’ll put conscripts to training there. Use your critical thinking. > Correct, which is why I used critical thinking instead of jumping to conclusions. There’s almost a million of active personnel in Ukrainian army at the moment, a million. That’s the population of Cologne or Amsterdam. Modern armies, like Ukrainian one, have dozens of branches, and meatgrinder is “only” one of them. And I still don’t understand what’s your original point anyway?
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  > If tomorrow there’s a shortage of jet pilots in Ukraine and no volunteers - they’ll put conscripts to training there. Use your critical thinking. Error 404: critical thinking not found in your comment. Have you seen the requirements, physical and mental tests fighter pilots need to pass? What makes you think people who've been beaten into submission by the military recruiters during forced conscription would then be mentally and physically fit to be entrusted with a super expensive and dangerous weapon in the sky? Ukrainian men have been caught fighting or even boobytrapping the vans of the military recruiters in order to avoid conscription or as revenge against their brutal tactics. Would you then give those guys a 50 Million USD jet armed with bombs and missiles after you beat them into submission to join the military? That's like beating your wife and then giving her the keys to your expensive Mercedes. What do you think is gonna happen then with your Mercedes/jet?
red-iron-pine 1y ago
> Source? What's the on the job performance of those being forced to do something non-meatgrinder related? I did signals intelligence in the USMC a decade or two ago. To paraphrase a discussion I heard: "you do this job or we ship your ass back to the infantry tomorrow and strip your clearance. don't fuck up." that's how. the option is to learn to do X and Y, or learn to dodge drones.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  Fair point, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. Being a peon for the US army/marines is one thing, being cannon fodder in the Ukrainian army is another one. The US army treats, equips and protects its soldiers way better than any other army in the world, so US soldiers are a lot more likely to be cooperative with orders and conscription process than armies where you're just given an AK and shipped to the meat grinder. For context, even the German military had a shortage of underwear and dog tags for its conscripts due to underfunding. Now imagine what the armies of Ukraine and Russia are like.

wiseowise 1y ago

Source for what? That it’s a job? If tomorrow there’s a shortage of jet pilots in Ukraine and no volunteers - they’ll put conscripts to training there. Use your critical thinking. > Correct, which is why I used critical thinking instead of jumping to conclusions. There’s almost a million of active personnel in Ukrainian army at the moment, a million. That’s the population of Cologne or Amsterdam. Modern armies, like Ukrainian one, have dozens of branches, and meatgrinder is “only” one of them. And I still don’t understand what’s your original point anyway?

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
> If tomorrow there’s a shortage of jet pilots in Ukraine and no volunteers - they’ll put conscripts to training there. Use your critical thinking. Error 404: critical thinking not found in your comment. Have you seen the requirements, physical and mental tests fighter pilots need to pass? What makes you think people who've been beaten into submission by the military recruiters during forced conscription would then be mentally and physically fit to be entrusted with a super expensive and dangerous weapon in the sky? Ukrainian men have been caught fighting or even boobytrapping the vans of the military recruiters in order to avoid conscription or as revenge against their brutal tactics. Would you then give those guys a 50 Million USD jet armed with bombs and missiles after you beat them into submission to join the military? That's like beating your wife and then giving her the keys to your expensive Mercedes. What do you think is gonna happen then with your Mercedes/jet?

red-iron-pine 1y ago

> Source? What's the on the job performance of those being forced to do something non-meatgrinder related? I did signals intelligence in the USMC a decade or two ago. To paraphrase a discussion I heard: "you do this job or we ship your ass back to the infantry tomorrow and strip your clearance. don't fuck up." that's how. the option is to learn to do X and Y, or learn to dodge drones.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
Fair point, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. Being a peon for the US army/marines is one thing, being cannon fodder in the Ukrainian army is another one. The US army treats, equips and protects its soldiers way better than any other army in the world, so US soldiers are a lot more likely to be cooperative with orders and conscription process than armies where you're just given an AK and shipped to the meat grinder. For context, even the German military had a shortage of underwear and dog tags for its conscripts due to underfunding. Now imagine what the armies of Ukraine and Russia are like.