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Why do people jump to conclusion that he is necessarily sent right into the meat grinder? Army is not only generals and meat waves.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
[flagged]
- readthenotes1 1y ago
  What makes you think that? Denmark has forced conscription and there's zero trench warfare going on.
  - dijit 1y ago
    Is Denmark at war? I wasn’t aware.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - kawsper 1y ago
      Interestingly lots of Danes have been asking the same question. The opposition tried (without luck) to get an answer in 2008-2014, latest after the Snowden revelations. Certain rules in our constitution kicks in if we’re at war.
      - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        >Interestingly lots of Danes have been asking the same question. Such a bad faith argument in poor taste. What's there to keep asking? The answer is pretty simple: do you have invading soldiers, drones, bullets and artillery shells coming to kill you right now, YES or NO? YES - you're in a war, NO - you're not. You can argue that maybe you're in a smoldering "cold war", but that's an entirely different kettle of fish compared to an outright kinetic war where you fight for your survival on a daily basis. It's not that they're not in the same ballpark, they're not even in the same galaxy.
    - readthenotes1 1y ago
      It doesn't stop them from having a conscription
- wiseowise 1y ago
  > You can't physically force someone to fly a jet or work in intelligence behind a desk Sure you do. It’s a job like everything else. > Because they used critical thinking. Jumping to conclusions isn’t critical thinking.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    >Sure you do. It’s a job like everything else. Source? What's the on the job performance of those being forced to do something non-meatgrinder related? You're probably not gonna get someone to be an efficient fighter pilot by beating them up, throwing them in a van with a gun to their head. But you can give them a rifle and order them to march since it doesn't take much skill or willingness to fight in order to be an effective bullet sponge. Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. >Jumping to conclusions isn’t critical thinking. Correct, which is why I used critical thinking instead of jumping to conclusions.
    - wiseowise 1y ago
      Source for what? That it’s a job? If tomorrow there’s a shortage of jet pilots in Ukraine and no volunteers - they’ll put conscripts to training there. Use your critical thinking. > Correct, which is why I used critical thinking instead of jumping to conclusions. There’s almost a million of active personnel in Ukrainian army at the moment, a million. That’s the population of Cologne or Amsterdam. Modern armies, like Ukrainian one, have dozens of branches, and meatgrinder is “only” one of them. And I still don’t understand what’s your original point anyway?
      - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        > If tomorrow there’s a shortage of jet pilots in Ukraine and no volunteers - they’ll put conscripts to training there. Use your critical thinking. Error 404: critical thinking not found in your comment. Have you seen the requirements, physical and mental tests fighter pilots need to pass? What makes you think people who've been beaten into submission by the military recruiters during forced conscription would then be mentally and physically fit to be entrusted with a super expensive and dangerous weapon in the sky? Ukrainian men have been caught fighting or even boobytrapping the vans of the military recruiters in order to avoid conscription or as revenge against their brutal tactics. Would you then give those guys a 50 Million USD jet armed with bombs and missiles after you beat them into submission to join the military? That's like beating your wife and then giving her the keys to your expensive Mercedes. What do you think is gonna happen then with your Mercedes/jet?
- denkmoon 1y ago
  I wonder how many mess cooks and mechanics are conscripted.
- nudgeOrnurture 1y ago
  > You can't physically force someone to fly a jet or work in intelligence. Yes, you can. Physical force is rarely necessary, though. It's enough to threaten their family, and show an example, first, like how some specific nerve agent spreads in Uncle Theo's body or what not only the Nazis used to do when they annihilated sex hormone production via Estrogen overload or anti-androgen agents. Want this done to your kids? Bam, jet in the air. I guess it's physical force by proxy.
  - closewith 1y ago
    In most cases, countries don't even need to do those. Social pressure keeps conscripts in line.
    - nudgeOrnurture 1y ago
      doesn't apply to edge cases
  - nudgeOrnurture 1y ago
    btw, according to the story, they took Aaron Schwartz out of civil intelligence by force. fuck all the responsible people in the ass with a cactus for that one. if it was all a bit and he's now part of Heartbeat, ok ... point in case
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
pickledoyster 1y ago
Indeed, as another comment linked to https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/21819-impact-of-ongoing-war-on-grapheneos-development https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/21819-impact-of-ongoing-war... it seems pretty clear that this is not the case: > We've used our available connections to try to keep them safe. There's no way to get them out of the conscription. However, they're an incredibly talented security researcher and engineer and it would be extraordinarily misguided to send them to front line combat. This seems to be understood now.
- wiseowise 1y ago
  > would be
  - other8026 1y ago
    > We're in communication with him and he has been diverted away from combat. https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1933311869122720069 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1933311869122720069
strcat 1y ago
> Why do people jump to conclusion that he is necessarily sent right into the meat grinder? He was assigned to being infantry since that's the default. Due to our public post on X specifically, he ended up being transferred to doing development work instead. That transfer was only finalized in the past couple days. He's safe but we're still down our most important developer. We successfully migrated to Android 16 despite this combined with Android 16 no longer providing Pixel device repositories in the Android Open Source Project but it took a lot longer than usual. We're currently recovering from the massive amount of work we had to do for the Android 16 port so development is going fairly slowly right now. We plan to hire more experienced developers.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago

[flagged]

readthenotes1 1y ago
What makes you think that? Denmark has forced conscription and there's zero trench warfare going on.
- dijit 1y ago
  Is Denmark at war? I wasn’t aware.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - kawsper 1y ago
    Interestingly lots of Danes have been asking the same question. The opposition tried (without luck) to get an answer in 2008-2014, latest after the Snowden revelations. Certain rules in our constitution kicks in if we’re at war.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      >Interestingly lots of Danes have been asking the same question. Such a bad faith argument in poor taste. What's there to keep asking? The answer is pretty simple: do you have invading soldiers, drones, bullets and artillery shells coming to kill you right now, YES or NO? YES - you're in a war, NO - you're not. You can argue that maybe you're in a smoldering "cold war", but that's an entirely different kettle of fish compared to an outright kinetic war where you fight for your survival on a daily basis. It's not that they're not in the same ballpark, they're not even in the same galaxy.
  - readthenotes1 1y ago
    It doesn't stop them from having a conscription
wiseowise 1y ago
> You can't physically force someone to fly a jet or work in intelligence behind a desk Sure you do. It’s a job like everything else. > Because they used critical thinking. Jumping to conclusions isn’t critical thinking.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  >Sure you do. It’s a job like everything else. Source? What's the on the job performance of those being forced to do something non-meatgrinder related? You're probably not gonna get someone to be an efficient fighter pilot by beating them up, throwing them in a van with a gun to their head. But you can give them a rifle and order them to march since it doesn't take much skill or willingness to fight in order to be an effective bullet sponge. Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. >Jumping to conclusions isn’t critical thinking. Correct, which is why I used critical thinking instead of jumping to conclusions.
  - wiseowise 1y ago
    Source for what? That it’s a job? If tomorrow there’s a shortage of jet pilots in Ukraine and no volunteers - they’ll put conscripts to training there. Use your critical thinking. > Correct, which is why I used critical thinking instead of jumping to conclusions. There’s almost a million of active personnel in Ukrainian army at the moment, a million. That’s the population of Cologne or Amsterdam. Modern armies, like Ukrainian one, have dozens of branches, and meatgrinder is “only” one of them. And I still don’t understand what’s your original point anyway?
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      > If tomorrow there’s a shortage of jet pilots in Ukraine and no volunteers - they’ll put conscripts to training there. Use your critical thinking. Error 404: critical thinking not found in your comment. Have you seen the requirements, physical and mental tests fighter pilots need to pass? What makes you think people who've been beaten into submission by the military recruiters during forced conscription would then be mentally and physically fit to be entrusted with a super expensive and dangerous weapon in the sky? Ukrainian men have been caught fighting or even boobytrapping the vans of the military recruiters in order to avoid conscription or as revenge against their brutal tactics. Would you then give those guys a 50 Million USD jet armed with bombs and missiles after you beat them into submission to join the military? That's like beating your wife and then giving her the keys to your expensive Mercedes. What do you think is gonna happen then with your Mercedes/jet?
denkmoon 1y ago
I wonder how many mess cooks and mechanics are conscripted.
nudgeOrnurture 1y ago
> You can't physically force someone to fly a jet or work in intelligence. Yes, you can. Physical force is rarely necessary, though. It's enough to threaten their family, and show an example, first, like how some specific nerve agent spreads in Uncle Theo's body or what not only the Nazis used to do when they annihilated sex hormone production via Estrogen overload or anti-androgen agents. Want this done to your kids? Bam, jet in the air. I guess it's physical force by proxy.
- closewith 1y ago
  In most cases, countries don't even need to do those. Social pressure keeps conscripts in line.
  - nudgeOrnurture 1y ago
    doesn't apply to edge cases
- nudgeOrnurture 1y ago
  btw, according to the story, they took Aaron Schwartz out of civil intelligence by force. fuck all the responsible people in the ass with a cactus for that one. if it was all a bit and he's now part of Heartbeat, ok ... point in case

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

pickledoyster 1y ago

Indeed, as another comment linked to https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/21819-impact-of-ongoing-war-on-grapheneos-development https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/21819-impact-of-ongoing-war... it seems pretty clear that this is not the case: > We've used our available connections to try to keep them safe. There's no way to get them out of the conscription. However, they're an incredibly talented security researcher and engineer and it would be extraordinarily misguided to send them to front line combat. This seems to be understood now.

wiseowise 1y ago
> would be
- other8026 1y ago
  > We're in communication with him and he has been diverted away from combat. https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1933311869122720069 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1933311869122720069

strcat 1y ago

> Why do people jump to conclusion that he is necessarily sent right into the meat grinder? He was assigned to being infantry since that's the default. Due to our public post on X specifically, he ended up being transferred to doing development work instead. That transfer was only finalized in the past couple days. He's safe but we're still down our most important developer. We successfully migrated to Android 16 despite this combined with Android 16 no longer providing Pixel device repositories in the Android Open Source Project but it took a lot longer than usual. We're currently recovering from the massive amount of work we had to do for the Android 16 port so development is going fairly slowly right now. We plan to hire more experienced developers.