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I hope they manage to do something similar for the NSF. The proposed cuts there are crushing. The NSF funds great science in all parts of the country, and subse

I hope they manage to do something similar for the NSF. The proposed cuts there are crushing. The NSF funds great science in all parts of the country, and subsequently tons of jobs to the area.

Dig1t 1y ago
[flagged]
- moab 1y ago
  You clearly did not look at the proposed cuts for the coming years---it guts the NSF.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- oivey 1y ago
  Where did you read this?
  - ogjerajogae 1y ago
    this user has been making this claim repeatedly for months -- and if you look at the source data they used, the titles are fabricated and non-representative. They are either a GenAI disinformation bot, or they're a human who is so dedicated to their dishonesty as to be impossible to distinguish from such a bot.
    - Dig1t 1y ago
      I am not a bot, you can search the list of cancelled grants on this site: https://grant-watch.us/nsf-data.html https://grant-watch.us/nsf-data.html Just take a minute and read some of them, almost every single one is DEI related. It’s pure racism. The titles I pasted into my post I copied directly from the published list of grants, it’s not like I made up those weirdly specific names. You can search for them yourself.
      - ogjerajogae 1y ago
        [flagged]
  - perihelions 1y ago
    (Not OP) They're from this .csv table of cancelled NSF grants posted on HN, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43959129#43959536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43959129#43959536 ("The Academic Pipeline Stall: Why Industry Must Stand for Academia (sigarch.org)"—65 days ago, 150 comments)
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      When analyzing a CSV like this, one must remember we got PCR - fundamental for every advance in genetics in the last 50 years or so - from a $80k research grant into the pretty hot spring colors in Yellowstone. https://www.usgs.gov/observatories/yvo/news/how-a-thermophilic-bacterium-a-yellowstone-hot-spring-helping-fight-against https://www.usgs.gov/observatories/yvo/news/how-a-thermophil...
  - Dig1t 1y ago
    You can read the list of canceled grants here https://grant-watch.us/nsf-data.html https://grant-watch.us/nsf-data.html
autobodie 1y ago
That would be a great way to spend the money saved by taking away millions of peoples' healthcare.
musicale 1y ago
NSF funds tons of underpaid grad students who are the source of US research productivity per dollar.
- sandworm101 1y ago
  And they are the underpaid workforce that keeps the undergrad industrial complex so profitable.
  - ModernMech 1y ago
    Speaking as someone who's seen a university budget: - Undergrad education breaks even - Research operates at a loss - Master's and professional programs makes a modest profit because most students pay full tuition. - Interest income off the endowment barely covers operating expenses - The remaining balance comes from donations. YMMV, but at the end of the day, what keeps many universities afloat is providing good experiences to students in their formative years so that when they get older and make money, they just give a portion of it back to their alma mater due to good vibes and nostalgia. That's the business model, not bilking grad students.
    - musicale 1y ago
      1. Undergraduate education benefits from low-paid lecturers and teaching assistants. 2. NSF's operating model is based on low-paid graduate students and postdocs. 3. Universities (at least until recently?) took a significant cut (for example 50%) off the top of NSF (and other) grants as overhead, but their overhead rate is significantly lower than typical government contractors in industry. 4. If you are a grad student and ever want to become (more) depressed (for both present and future prospects), read an NSF (or similar) grant for the project you are doing all the work for, and see how the funds are allocated. 5. Universities also underpay their professional athletes in "money" sports such as football and basketball. 6. Administration growth has outpaced enrollment growth (and faculty expansion etc.) for decades. So undergraduate education may "break even", but it's still paying an army of non-teaching administrators.[1] (Universities defend themselves by saying that regulatory compliance is more expensive now, etc.) [1] https://stanforddaily.com/2024/03/13/behind-stanfords-doubled-staff-to-student-ratio/ https://stanforddaily.com/2024/03/13/behind-stanfords-double...
supertrope 1y ago
Maybe the NSF needs to geographically disperse grants to maximize Congressional Districts that benefit. Kind of like how military spending is spread around states.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  They do. Any district with a college or university is likely getting some.
  - supertrope 1y ago
    What I mean is universities tend to be in cities with a few satellite branches in rural towns. Spread the “production” across as many Congressional Districts as possible to optimize for votes. When the system incentivizes pandering to rural areas that is the only winning move.
    - ragnese 1y ago
      Is this different than how military spending is spread, though? That's not a rhetorical question- I'm not tuned in enough to know. Even though I've seen military bases in the middle of nowhere, I've certainly seen some bases and defense contractors (Raytheon, Lockheed, etc) in non-rural areas. I'm cynically, and pessimistically, kind of assuming that it's really just about what's being funded in this case. Military spending is pretty much always supported by both politicians and the public, whereas there is a VERY strong anti-science and anti-academia wave in our culture at the moment (even more so than I always used to think there was...).
      - xen2xen1 1y ago
        I've done IT a long time, and I once was sent to a gleaming new building.. In an Indiana corn field. In the middle of nowhere, for Indiana. They made very small number of parts (or mostly one) for the military. It was probably an F35 part. An entire bespoke business for a part...
      - spauldo 1y ago
drweevil 1y ago
Word. The NSF provides great value from a relatively small budget. Because of the small sums involved I take these cuts as evidence of a fundamental hostility to scientific research.

I hope they manage to do something similar for the NSF. The proposed cuts there are crushing. The NSF funds great science in all parts of the country, and subsequently tons of jobs to the area.

Dig1t 1y ago

[flagged]

moab 1y ago
You clearly did not look at the proposed cuts for the coming years---it guts the NSF.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
oivey 1y ago
Where did you read this?
- ogjerajogae 1y ago
  this user has been making this claim repeatedly for months -- and if you look at the source data they used, the titles are fabricated and non-representative. They are either a GenAI disinformation bot, or they're a human who is so dedicated to their dishonesty as to be impossible to distinguish from such a bot.
  - Dig1t 1y ago
    I am not a bot, you can search the list of cancelled grants on this site: https://grant-watch.us/nsf-data.html https://grant-watch.us/nsf-data.html Just take a minute and read some of them, almost every single one is DEI related. It’s pure racism. The titles I pasted into my post I copied directly from the published list of grants, it’s not like I made up those weirdly specific names. You can search for them yourself.
    - ogjerajogae 1y ago
      [flagged]
- perihelions 1y ago
  (Not OP) They're from this .csv table of cancelled NSF grants posted on HN, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43959129#43959536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43959129#43959536 ("The Academic Pipeline Stall: Why Industry Must Stand for Academia (sigarch.org)"—65 days ago, 150 comments)
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    When analyzing a CSV like this, one must remember we got PCR - fundamental for every advance in genetics in the last 50 years or so - from a $80k research grant into the pretty hot spring colors in Yellowstone. https://www.usgs.gov/observatories/yvo/news/how-a-thermophilic-bacterium-a-yellowstone-hot-spring-helping-fight-against https://www.usgs.gov/observatories/yvo/news/how-a-thermophil...
- Dig1t 1y ago
  You can read the list of canceled grants here https://grant-watch.us/nsf-data.html https://grant-watch.us/nsf-data.html

autobodie 1y ago

That would be a great way to spend the money saved by taking away millions of peoples' healthcare.

musicale 1y ago

NSF funds tons of underpaid grad students who are the source of US research productivity per dollar.

sandworm101 1y ago
And they are the underpaid workforce that keeps the undergrad industrial complex so profitable.
- ModernMech 1y ago
  Speaking as someone who's seen a university budget: - Undergrad education breaks even - Research operates at a loss - Master's and professional programs makes a modest profit because most students pay full tuition. - Interest income off the endowment barely covers operating expenses - The remaining balance comes from donations. YMMV, but at the end of the day, what keeps many universities afloat is providing good experiences to students in their formative years so that when they get older and make money, they just give a portion of it back to their alma mater due to good vibes and nostalgia. That's the business model, not bilking grad students.
  - musicale 1y ago
    1. Undergraduate education benefits from low-paid lecturers and teaching assistants. 2. NSF's operating model is based on low-paid graduate students and postdocs. 3. Universities (at least until recently?) took a significant cut (for example 50%) off the top of NSF (and other) grants as overhead, but their overhead rate is significantly lower than typical government contractors in industry. 4. If you are a grad student and ever want to become (more) depressed (for both present and future prospects), read an NSF (or similar) grant for the project you are doing all the work for, and see how the funds are allocated. 5. Universities also underpay their professional athletes in "money" sports such as football and basketball. 6. Administration growth has outpaced enrollment growth (and faculty expansion etc.) for decades. So undergraduate education may "break even", but it's still paying an army of non-teaching administrators.[1] (Universities defend themselves by saying that regulatory compliance is more expensive now, etc.) [1] https://stanforddaily.com/2024/03/13/behind-stanfords-doubled-staff-to-student-ratio/ https://stanforddaily.com/2024/03/13/behind-stanfords-double...

supertrope 1y ago

Maybe the NSF needs to geographically disperse grants to maximize Congressional Districts that benefit. Kind of like how military spending is spread around states.

ceejayoz 1y ago
They do. Any district with a college or university is likely getting some.
- supertrope 1y ago
  What I mean is universities tend to be in cities with a few satellite branches in rural towns. Spread the “production” across as many Congressional Districts as possible to optimize for votes. When the system incentivizes pandering to rural areas that is the only winning move.
  - ragnese 1y ago
    Is this different than how military spending is spread, though? That's not a rhetorical question- I'm not tuned in enough to know. Even though I've seen military bases in the middle of nowhere, I've certainly seen some bases and defense contractors (Raytheon, Lockheed, etc) in non-rural areas. I'm cynically, and pessimistically, kind of assuming that it's really just about what's being funded in this case. Military spending is pretty much always supported by both politicians and the public, whereas there is a VERY strong anti-science and anti-academia wave in our culture at the moment (even more so than I always used to think there was...).
    - xen2xen1 1y ago
      I've done IT a long time, and I once was sent to a gleaming new building.. In an Indiana corn field. In the middle of nowhere, for Indiana. They made very small number of parts (or mostly one) for the military. It was probably an F35 part. An entire bespoke business for a part...
    - spauldo 1y ago

drweevil 1y ago

Word. The NSF provides great value from a relatively small budget. Because of the small sums involved I take these cuts as evidence of a fundamental hostility to scientific research.