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This seems bad on its face, but I wonder if this is specific to reading comprehension or to all comprehension? If our society moved from text to video as the p

This seems bad on its face, but I wonder if this is specific to reading comprehension or to all comprehension? If our society moved from text to video as the primary way to transmit information, would our ability to communicate and comprehend the world necessarily be diminished? Text has been around for only a blip compared to oral communication. I love reading, and it feels bad to see it decline, but I'm trying to be open-minded about what comes next.

WillAdams 1y ago
The thing is, back before writing became prevalent, Shakespeare would worry that his plays would be plagiarized by someone in the audience watching a performance, then afterwards, writing down the entire thing from memory. Similarly, _The Metamorphoses_, and _The Iliad_, and _The Odyssey_ were part of an oral tradition and their structures were created to as to facilitate memorization and recitation --- how many poems can you recite from memory? Marshall McLuhan warned that each extension of what people can do aided by technology is accompanied by an amputation of what folks will do/learn/be capable of unaided: https://stream.syscoi.com/2019/05/30/marshall-mcluhan-extensions-and-amputations/ https://stream.syscoi.com/2019/05/30/marshall-mcluhan-extens...
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  I couldn't even read those books. Forget about memorizing them.
  - WillAdams 1y ago
    It wasn't that long ago that books were so rare/valuable/difficult to have access to that folks would read and memorize pretty much everything they could lay their hands on.
  - watwut 1y ago
    It is because you read the translation that intentionally translated them into obscure hard to understand and interpret language. So that they poem feels more ancient and "serious" to reader. But originally they were written in the language of the time and in the way that made them easy to remember for contemporaries. They had rhythm, because that is easier to remember. They contained a lot of repetition, because that is easier to remember.
- Wild_Dolphins 1y ago
  >Shakespeare would worry that his plays would be plagiarized by someone in the audience... writing down the entire thing from memory. This would have been VERY difficult as Shakespeare wrote plays in iambic-pentameter, a form of decasyllabic verse; which could be considered a kind of very-loose 'checksum'. The audience member who was pirating-Shakespeare plays would have to recall the dialog-from-the-play absolutely perfectly to render it in the original iambic-pentameter. Possible, but super tricky. Shakespeare has built-in copy-protection. Renaissance style.
  - WillAdams 1y ago
    Actually, iambic-pentameter functions as a checksum, making it easier to arrive at the correct text.
- SamPatt 1y ago
  Yes, and we've lost something, but hasn't this tradeoff likely been worthwhile? Reading may impact memorization but externalizing knowledge obviously had immense benefits. If yes, then how do we know the next tradeoff won't also be worthwhile?
  - WillAdams 1y ago
    I don't see how rate-limiting one's access to knowledge to video speeds due to illiteracy, and removing the ability to take/read useful/usable notes could be helpful. When I was in college, I was volunteered to take notes for a student who had a disability which precluded their taking notes in Art History class, so I would fax my notes to the secretary's office from my Newton MessagePad, which notes included sketches of each of the slides (many of which were not in the textbook) as well as page references to the textbook (since I brought mine in to class and followed along in it during the lectures) --- turns out the notes were shared with the everyone else taking the class in the dorm, resulting in a marked improvement in GPA and a lowered failure rate --- until the textbook was changed from Janson to Gardner a couple of years later.
ToucanLoucan 1y ago
The problem is text as a form of media consumption is just the easy, arguably unimportant bit. Text comprehension is essential for modern life. * Understanding legal documents like contracts * Filing taxes * Filling out job applications * Basically all forms of asynchronous communication * Every form you’ve ever filled out Like I’ve read tear jerking accounts of how rat fucked you are in life if you can’t read. A brutal combination of being setup to fail in every interaction, general humiliation, and being utterly left out of society to a shocking degree.
SoftTalker 1y ago
Not sure. To me, there is something about reading that grabs my attention more than video or images. As I'm reading, I can stop and think without having to hit pause. I can reread a sentence or paragraph without rewinding. I proceed at the pace of my understanding, not at the pace of the video. And certainly, although video creation is pretty easy today, it's still dependent on a lot of technology. I can write with a pencil and a notebook.
trod1234 1y ago
Most comprehension is down, and seemingly purposefully so, not on the part of the students but in the effects of the environment the student must participate in. Waiting for Superman (2010) pretty much covers most of the issues, but can't sufficiently convey the students whose futures were wasted from bad tutelage. There is an opportunity cost for everything.
pjc50 1y ago
Big "it depends". Video can be used to present good information in more ways simultaneously than text; it can be a more involving artistic experience; but is it? Is the incentive structure in fact to produce youtube-face clickbait four hour videos about why Star Wars is woke now?

WillAdams 1y ago

The thing is, back before writing became prevalent, Shakespeare would worry that his plays would be plagiarized by someone in the audience watching a performance, then afterwards, writing down the entire thing from memory. Similarly, _The Metamorphoses_, and _The Iliad_, and _The Odyssey_ were part of an oral tradition and their structures were created to as to facilitate memorization and recitation --- how many poems can you recite from memory? Marshall McLuhan warned that each extension of what people can do aided by technology is accompanied by an amputation of what folks will do/learn/be capable of unaided: https://stream.syscoi.com/2019/05/30/marshall-mcluhan-extensions-and-amputations/ https://stream.syscoi.com/2019/05/30/marshall-mcluhan-extens...

SoftTalker 1y ago
I couldn't even read those books. Forget about memorizing them.
- WillAdams 1y ago
  It wasn't that long ago that books were so rare/valuable/difficult to have access to that folks would read and memorize pretty much everything they could lay their hands on.
- watwut 1y ago
  It is because you read the translation that intentionally translated them into obscure hard to understand and interpret language. So that they poem feels more ancient and "serious" to reader. But originally they were written in the language of the time and in the way that made them easy to remember for contemporaries. They had rhythm, because that is easier to remember. They contained a lot of repetition, because that is easier to remember.
Wild_Dolphins 1y ago
>Shakespeare would worry that his plays would be plagiarized by someone in the audience... writing down the entire thing from memory. This would have been VERY difficult as Shakespeare wrote plays in iambic-pentameter, a form of decasyllabic verse; which could be considered a kind of very-loose 'checksum'. The audience member who was pirating-Shakespeare plays would have to recall the dialog-from-the-play absolutely perfectly to render it in the original iambic-pentameter. Possible, but super tricky. Shakespeare has built-in copy-protection. Renaissance style.
- WillAdams 1y ago
  Actually, iambic-pentameter functions as a checksum, making it easier to arrive at the correct text.
SamPatt 1y ago
Yes, and we've lost something, but hasn't this tradeoff likely been worthwhile? Reading may impact memorization but externalizing knowledge obviously had immense benefits. If yes, then how do we know the next tradeoff won't also be worthwhile?
- WillAdams 1y ago
  I don't see how rate-limiting one's access to knowledge to video speeds due to illiteracy, and removing the ability to take/read useful/usable notes could be helpful. When I was in college, I was volunteered to take notes for a student who had a disability which precluded their taking notes in Art History class, so I would fax my notes to the secretary's office from my Newton MessagePad, which notes included sketches of each of the slides (many of which were not in the textbook) as well as page references to the textbook (since I brought mine in to class and followed along in it during the lectures) --- turns out the notes were shared with the everyone else taking the class in the dorm, resulting in a marked improvement in GPA and a lowered failure rate --- until the textbook was changed from Janson to Gardner a couple of years later.

ToucanLoucan 1y ago

The problem is text as a form of media consumption is just the easy, arguably unimportant bit. Text comprehension is essential for modern life. * Understanding legal documents like contracts * Filing taxes * Filling out job applications * Basically all forms of asynchronous communication * Every form you’ve ever filled out Like I’ve read tear jerking accounts of how rat fucked you are in life if you can’t read. A brutal combination of being setup to fail in every interaction, general humiliation, and being utterly left out of society to a shocking degree.

SoftTalker 1y ago

Not sure. To me, there is something about reading that grabs my attention more than video or images. As I'm reading, I can stop and think without having to hit pause. I can reread a sentence or paragraph without rewinding. I proceed at the pace of my understanding, not at the pace of the video. And certainly, although video creation is pretty easy today, it's still dependent on a lot of technology. I can write with a pencil and a notebook.

trod1234 1y ago

Most comprehension is down, and seemingly purposefully so, not on the part of the students but in the effects of the environment the student must participate in. Waiting for Superman (2010) pretty much covers most of the issues, but can't sufficiently convey the students whose futures were wasted from bad tutelage. There is an opportunity cost for everything.

pjc50 1y ago

Big "it depends". Video can be used to present good information in more ways simultaneously than text; it can be a more involving artistic experience; but is it? Is the incentive structure in fact to produce youtube-face clickbait four hour videos about why Star Wars is woke now?