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You keep using the word “create”, but did you really create any of it, or did you commission someone else (which happens to be a machine) to generate it as they

by latexr 1y ago

You keep using the word “create”, but did you really create any of it, or did you commission someone else (which happens to be a machine) to generate it as they saw fit, with some minor guidance? Let’s say LLMs and generative AI did not exist and your chat sessions were with a human. Could they not have delivered the same (albeit taking a bit longer)? Would you also have claimed you had “created” the music then? Basically the difference here is that with AI you can take the credit without the other party complaining. I’m glad you had fun. Nothing wrong with playing with a toy and entertaining yourself. But to claim you created something while simultaneously brushing off taking the time to learn the skill doesn’t quite feel right. Like saying “I made this table. I don’t have the time to learn carpentry or something, so I asked a guy to do it for me. I did specify it needed four legs and a back, though, so I did it”.

Mashimo 1y ago
He is a producer :)
TheAceOfHearts 1y ago
It feels very nitpicky to police the use of the word create. If GP hadn't willed it, the song wouldn't exist at all, it was only created due to their action. But I guess it depends on how much creative input is given. If I write the lyrics for a song, I feel like that's a significant contribution in creating a musical piece. If I made a detailed sketch for a table design and I hired someone to help correct any oversights and to build it, I think you can take some credit for the creation of the table, because your design was a key input.
- latexr 1y ago
  > It feels very nitpicky to police the use of the word create. Conversely, I feel the word “police” is overused in these contexts. I’m not stopping (or attempting to stop) their use of the word. Nor could I, I have no power to change their word usage. But words have meanings, and their overuse dilutes and makes communication more difficult. If someone uses a word multiple times in one short comment as part of their main thesis, I think it’s fair to reflect on if it’s being used correctly. That is, of course, a matter of interpretation and open to disagreement. That’s what I’m on HN for, to bounce ideas and develop my thinking. > If GP hadn't willed it, the song wouldn't exist at all, it was only created due to their action. Which is no different from a commission, which is why I used that word (again, meaning matters). > If I write the lyrics for a song, I feel like that's a significant contribution in creating a musical piece. The OP said “most of the lyrics are generated using chatgpt”. So most of the lyrics are created by an AI tool and most (if not all) of the music is created by another AI tool. Where is the person’s “significant contribution” in this scenario? > If I made a detailed sketch for a table design and I hired someone to help correct any oversights and to build it Except that doesn’t look to be at all what happened here. It looks more analogous to giving some vague verbal instructions at different stages of the process. Again, no different from a client commissioning a work from an artist. Crucially, your example does require learning a skill, which the OP admittedly didn’t. Making a detailed sketch for a table design requires that you learn how it’s done. In this case, it would be somewhat analogous to the OP having written musical notation to generate the song, which is also a skill. But here, no skill was used or pursued. Your hypotheticals are valid in general. But I’m not discussing hypotheticals in the aggregate, every analogy I made was about this specific case.
renegat0x0 1y ago
I think that people often project their own assumptions. How do you know how much of it (lyric-wise) was AI generated? If prodigy created track based on samples from other songs they cannot use word "create"? If I create a "collage" art, am I not creating something? I think that some people are fixated on creation part. "You didn't create this picture, because you used Adobe filter on you digital art", "You didn't create this picture because you are digital artist, and was not using real brushes", "You didn't create Hellblade Senua game, because you just used Unreal Engine, and it did the heavy lifting for your, so you didn't really create the game".
- latexr 1y ago
  > I think that people often project their own assumptions. I agree. It is unfortunately also a fact that people often don’t accurately read what was written and don’t respond to the argument. > How do you know how much of it (lyric-wise) was AI generated? You said it: > Most of the lyrics are generated using chatgpt Most. > If prodigy created track based on samples from other songs they cannot use word "create"? > If I create a "collage" art, am I not creating something? > I think that some people are fixated on creation part. "You didn't create this picture, because you used Adobe filter on you digital art", "You didn't create this picture because you are digital artist, and was not using real brushes", "You didn't create Hellblade Senua game, because you just used Unreal Engine, and it did the heavy lifting for your, so you didn't really create the game". None of those are the same thing. Your examples all require skill to do well. You, by your own admission, have eschewed learning a skill. That is a gargantuan difference.
rpdillon 1y ago
To be fair, after watching a bunch of Rick Beato's videos on YouTube, I'm realizing this is how the music industry actually works, regardless of whether or not AI is involved. Maybe 'create' isn't such a bad word for it! Like, I didn't know the name Jack Antonoff before I watched those videos, but I sure do now. Gareth Emery and Ashley Wallbridge's song CVNT5 also talks about this. What you're really complaining about is the ever downward price pressure on creating music. AI is just a useful way to facilitate that, but the process of making music more cheaply has been going on for decades. It's the reason that record labels don't really sign rock bands anymore, because they're much more expensive than single person acts.

by latexr 1y ago

Mashimo 1y ago

He is a producer :)

TheAceOfHearts 1y ago

It feels very nitpicky to police the use of the word create. If GP hadn't willed it, the song wouldn't exist at all, it was only created due to their action. But I guess it depends on how much creative input is given. If I write the lyrics for a song, I feel like that's a significant contribution in creating a musical piece. If I made a detailed sketch for a table design and I hired someone to help correct any oversights and to build it, I think you can take some credit for the creation of the table, because your design was a key input.

latexr 1y ago
> It feels very nitpicky to police the use of the word create. Conversely, I feel the word “police” is overused in these contexts. I’m not stopping (or attempting to stop) their use of the word. Nor could I, I have no power to change their word usage. But words have meanings, and their overuse dilutes and makes communication more difficult. If someone uses a word multiple times in one short comment as part of their main thesis, I think it’s fair to reflect on if it’s being used correctly. That is, of course, a matter of interpretation and open to disagreement. That’s what I’m on HN for, to bounce ideas and develop my thinking. > If GP hadn't willed it, the song wouldn't exist at all, it was only created due to their action. Which is no different from a commission, which is why I used that word (again, meaning matters). > If I write the lyrics for a song, I feel like that's a significant contribution in creating a musical piece. The OP said “most of the lyrics are generated using chatgpt”. So most of the lyrics are created by an AI tool and most (if not all) of the music is created by another AI tool. Where is the person’s “significant contribution” in this scenario? > If I made a detailed sketch for a table design and I hired someone to help correct any oversights and to build it Except that doesn’t look to be at all what happened here. It looks more analogous to giving some vague verbal instructions at different stages of the process. Again, no different from a client commissioning a work from an artist. Crucially, your example does require learning a skill, which the OP admittedly didn’t. Making a detailed sketch for a table design requires that you learn how it’s done. In this case, it would be somewhat analogous to the OP having written musical notation to generate the song, which is also a skill. But here, no skill was used or pursued. Your hypotheticals are valid in general. But I’m not discussing hypotheticals in the aggregate, every analogy I made was about this specific case.

renegat0x0 1y ago

I think that people often project their own assumptions. How do you know how much of it (lyric-wise) was AI generated? If prodigy created track based on samples from other songs they cannot use word "create"? If I create a "collage" art, am I not creating something? I think that some people are fixated on creation part. "You didn't create this picture, because you used Adobe filter on you digital art", "You didn't create this picture because you are digital artist, and was not using real brushes", "You didn't create Hellblade Senua game, because you just used Unreal Engine, and it did the heavy lifting for your, so you didn't really create the game".

latexr 1y ago
> I think that people often project their own assumptions. I agree. It is unfortunately also a fact that people often don’t accurately read what was written and don’t respond to the argument. > How do you know how much of it (lyric-wise) was AI generated? You said it: > Most of the lyrics are generated using chatgpt Most. > If prodigy created track based on samples from other songs they cannot use word "create"? > If I create a "collage" art, am I not creating something? > I think that some people are fixated on creation part. "You didn't create this picture, because you used Adobe filter on you digital art", "You didn't create this picture because you are digital artist, and was not using real brushes", "You didn't create Hellblade Senua game, because you just used Unreal Engine, and it did the heavy lifting for your, so you didn't really create the game". None of those are the same thing. Your examples all require skill to do well. You, by your own admission, have eschewed learning a skill. That is a gargantuan difference.

rpdillon 1y ago

To be fair, after watching a bunch of Rick Beato's videos on YouTube, I'm realizing this is how the music industry actually works, regardless of whether or not AI is involved. Maybe 'create' isn't such a bad word for it! Like, I didn't know the name Jack Antonoff before I watched those videos, but I sure do now. Gareth Emery and Ashley Wallbridge's song CVNT5 also talks about this. What you're really complaining about is the ever downward price pressure on creating music. AI is just a useful way to facilitate that, but the process of making music more cheaply has been going on for decades. It's the reason that record labels don't really sign rock bands anymore, because they're much more expensive than single person acts.