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I suppose my concern with not getting permission from all contributors is that a bad faith contributor could make life hard. For those S signs with a stripe, or

by arp242 1y ago

I suppose my concern with not getting permission from all contributors is that a bad faith contributor could make life hard. For those S signs with a stripe, or just out of spite. For better or worse, in systems like the US anyone can sue anyone for any reason and everyone is expected to carry their own costs, which is why everyone is so paranoid and covers their ass with three tanks worth of metal. Aside: "Meanwhile, Richard Stallman, author of the GPL and founder of the FSF, had significant disagreements with the PHP project over their use of the GPL, so the PHP project discontinued the dual-licensing approach, removing the GPL license as an option" Haha, such classic Stallman.

jraph 1y ago
The PHP Group can do anything they want since they can release a new version of the license without contributor approval because of the "or later" clause.
- arp242 1y ago
  That is not what the article says. It doesn't mention "or later" at all? And reading the full license text, I don't see "or later" there either?
  - ameliaquining 1y ago
    The wording to search for is, "You may also choose to use such covered code under the terms of any subsequent version of the license".
    - arp242 1y ago
      Ah cheers. Don't understand why that's not mentioned at all in the length section on changing the license?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- mikehall314 1y ago
  I assume this is the reason they're characterising this as "PHP License V4 will have identical wording to BSD-3" rather than "We will switch license to BSD-3". It amounts to the same thing, but the former framing means they're covered by the "or later".
graemep 1y ago
> Meanwhile, Richard Stallman, author of the GPL and founder of the FSF, had significant disagreements with the PHP project over their use of the GPL, so the PHP project discontinued the dual-licensing approach, removing the GPL license as an option The main link that cites is primarily about the MySQL license change to GPL and the impact on PHP licensing of tha. I also do not understand why anyone would drop the GPL because Stallman does not like their licensing.
- rollcat 1y ago
  > I also do not understand why anyone would drop the GPL because Stallman does not like their licensing. Stallman is said to be notoriously difficult to work with, and IMHO he's quite an extremist. He tried to veto emoji support in Emacs, because at the time it's only been supported on macOS. The reasonable recourse would've been add emoji support on the free platforms, but he seemingly can't see that far. So he's been ousted from the project. In situations like this, I honestly would prefer to shut him off as well. I have huge respect for his past work, but at this point he's doing more harm than good.
  - throwaway9899p 1y ago
    To understand the value of his behaviour, you need to look at it from a broader strategic point of view, particularly the idea of setting the overtone window. Without Stallman, the moderate would be cast as the extremist. Stallman’s positive contribution to humanity cannot be overstated by any measure. Without him and the like of him, it is not improbable that the whole software industry would be like Apple ecosystem.
    - rollcat 1y ago
      I do recognise and respect his past work. But he's come to a point where he'd rather hinder the progress of free software than help it. That's not extremist, that's short-sighted and spiteful. That, and the uh, "it's not rape if..." comments. I wouldn't want anything to do with this guy following that, just no.
  - 1y ago

by arp242 1y ago

jraph 1y ago

The PHP Group can do anything they want since they can release a new version of the license without contributor approval because of the "or later" clause.

arp242 1y ago
That is not what the article says. It doesn't mention "or later" at all? And reading the full license text, I don't see "or later" there either?
- ameliaquining 1y ago
  The wording to search for is, "You may also choose to use such covered code under the terms of any subsequent version of the license".
  - arp242 1y ago
    Ah cheers. Don't understand why that's not mentioned at all in the length section on changing the license?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
mikehall314 1y ago
I assume this is the reason they're characterising this as "PHP License V4 will have identical wording to BSD-3" rather than "We will switch license to BSD-3". It amounts to the same thing, but the former framing means they're covered by the "or later".

graemep 1y ago

> Meanwhile, Richard Stallman, author of the GPL and founder of the FSF, had significant disagreements with the PHP project over their use of the GPL, so the PHP project discontinued the dual-licensing approach, removing the GPL license as an option The main link that cites is primarily about the MySQL license change to GPL and the impact on PHP licensing of tha. I also do not understand why anyone would drop the GPL because Stallman does not like their licensing.

rollcat 1y ago
> I also do not understand why anyone would drop the GPL because Stallman does not like their licensing. Stallman is said to be notoriously difficult to work with, and IMHO he's quite an extremist. He tried to veto emoji support in Emacs, because at the time it's only been supported on macOS. The reasonable recourse would've been add emoji support on the free platforms, but he seemingly can't see that far. So he's been ousted from the project. In situations like this, I honestly would prefer to shut him off as well. I have huge respect for his past work, but at this point he's doing more harm than good.
- throwaway9899p 1y ago
  To understand the value of his behaviour, you need to look at it from a broader strategic point of view, particularly the idea of setting the overtone window. Without Stallman, the moderate would be cast as the extremist. Stallman’s positive contribution to humanity cannot be overstated by any measure. Without him and the like of him, it is not improbable that the whole software industry would be like Apple ecosystem.
  - rollcat 1y ago
    I do recognise and respect his past work. But he's come to a point where he'd rather hinder the progress of free software than help it. That's not extremist, that's short-sighted and spiteful. That, and the uh, "it's not rape if..." comments. I wouldn't want anything to do with this guy following that, just no.
- 1y ago