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There's a hugely material difference between deterring local property crime and handing ICE this information. ICE is deporting people to death camps (e.g. CECO

There's a hugely material difference between deterring local property crime and handing ICE this information. ICE is deporting people to death camps (e.g. CECOT), not giving people due process, operating masked and with military support. ICE is a gestapo in all but name. By all means, find ways to get your community police departments to address crime in your communities. Work with systems outside of police to fix the systemic root causes (crime doesn't "just happen", it's a symptom of other problems). But you don't need the secret police to fix car jackings and break-ins.

simianparrot 1y ago
[flagged]
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  > ICE is deporting illegals. How is that equivalent to the Gestapo? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws "The two laws were the Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honour, which forbade marriages and extramarital intercourse between Jews and Germans and the employment of German females under 45 in Jewish households; and the Reich Citizenship Law, which declared that only those of German or related blood were eligible to be Reich citizens." The Holocaust was, broadly speaking, legal under German law at the time. The Gestapo were frequently enforcing laws with their actions. Eventually, Jews were deported to concentration camps; they were made "illegal". "Legal" and "moral" are sometimes related, but not always. The Gestapo didn't start with the killings.
- GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
  "illegal" is not a noun and the use of it as such dehumanizes people for terrible reasons.
  - yahoozoo 1y ago
    Merriam-Webster says otherwise.
    - GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
      oh, good, hate wins again.
  - simianparrot 1y ago
    Are you seriously arguing there’s no such thing as an illegal immigrant? That’s actually insane, if so
- grumio 1y ago
  ICE deports US citizens. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/ice-deported-3-children-who-are-u-s-citizens-their-families-lawyers-say https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/ice-deported-3-childre... They're like the gestapo because they act in secret and hide their identities. They arrest dissidents because they say things the administration doesn't like. See Mahmoud Khalil. They're like the gestapo because hateful people get to just make people "illegal" at their own discretion. Half a million Haitians fleeing violence were here under temporary protected status, the executive branch is choosing to make them "illegal" and lying that Haiti is safe now. Half a million people were legal. Now they're "illegal". https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/27/haiti-temporary-protected-status-us-immigration https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/27/haiti-temporar... They do not follow due process which is guaranteed by the constitution to all persons in the US (not just citizens). https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2025/jul/13/rosie-odonnell-dismisses-donald-trump-threat-revoke-us-citizenship https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2025/jul/13/rosie-odonne... Trump wants to make Rosie O'Donnell "illegal". What are your thoughts on this?
  - jahewson 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - __loam 1y ago
      Right it's just morally repugnant but it's legal so who cares.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      Similarly, the Holocaust was legal under German law, because the Führer willed it so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrerprinzip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrerprinzip Thus illustrating the potential gap between legal and moral.
      - saubeidl 1y ago
        The Führerprinzip mentioned here, by the way, is basically the same argument the conservative supreme court is making right now. They call it Unitary executive theory in the States, but same idea.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  Anyone, citizen or non-citizen, illegaly here or legally here, can now be kidnapped off the street, stuffed in an unmarked van by masked men not identifying themselves as police, and sent to a foreign prison, without any due process. This is a little bit beyond merely “deporting illegals.”
jahewson 1y ago
[flagged]
stocksinsmocks 1y ago
[flagged]
- saubeidl 1y ago
  "They only brought a meal once a day and it had maggots. They never take off the lights for 24 hours. The mosquitoes are as big as elephants," La Figura said. "They're not respecting our human rights," one man said during the same call. "We're human beings; we're not dogs. We're like rats in an experiment." "I'm on the edge of losing my mind. I've gone three days without taking my medicine," he said. "It's impossible to sleep with this white light that's on all day." He also claimed his Bible was confiscated. "They took the Bible I had and they said here there is no right to religion. And my Bible is the one thing that keeps my faith, and now I'm losing my faith," he said. https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/alligator-alcatraz-detainees-allege-inhumane-conditions-at-immigration-detention-center/ https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/alligator-alcatraz-detain...
  - gruez 1y ago
    inhumane conditions =/= "death camps". There probably is a point where conditions are inhumane enough to cause deaths (think starvation), that it can be called a "death camp" but so far as I can tell from the wikipedia article it's nowhere near that. The article doesn't even mention how many people died there. However, it does mention a poorly supported theory on reddit/X that there's satellite images of body mounds that were subsequently hidden, so that might be what people were thinking of?
- const_cast 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - gruez 1y ago
    >They said CECOT is essentially a death camp - which is true. Because people are held there for life, or that the death rates there are high?
spankalee 1y ago
My comment shouldn't be read in any way as supporting ICE or giving ICE this information. Doing so is clearly illegal under California law, and what ICE is doing right now is terrible. But the prevailing sentiment in these comments is the the cameras shouldn't exist at all, not just that the data shouldn't be shared with ICE. My comment is about how useful the cameras are today. If you want them to not exist you need to understand why they do and probably offer up an alternate solution to the very real problems they address.

simianparrot 1y ago

[flagged]

ceejayoz 1y ago
> ICE is deporting illegals. How is that equivalent to the Gestapo? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws "The two laws were the Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honour, which forbade marriages and extramarital intercourse between Jews and Germans and the employment of German females under 45 in Jewish households; and the Reich Citizenship Law, which declared that only those of German or related blood were eligible to be Reich citizens." The Holocaust was, broadly speaking, legal under German law at the time. The Gestapo were frequently enforcing laws with their actions. Eventually, Jews were deported to concentration camps; they were made "illegal". "Legal" and "moral" are sometimes related, but not always. The Gestapo didn't start with the killings.
GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
"illegal" is not a noun and the use of it as such dehumanizes people for terrible reasons.
- yahoozoo 1y ago
  Merriam-Webster says otherwise.
  - GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
    oh, good, hate wins again.
- simianparrot 1y ago
  Are you seriously arguing there’s no such thing as an illegal immigrant? That’s actually insane, if so
grumio 1y ago
ICE deports US citizens. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/ice-deported-3-children-who-are-u-s-citizens-their-families-lawyers-say https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/ice-deported-3-childre... They're like the gestapo because they act in secret and hide their identities. They arrest dissidents because they say things the administration doesn't like. See Mahmoud Khalil. They're like the gestapo because hateful people get to just make people "illegal" at their own discretion. Half a million Haitians fleeing violence were here under temporary protected status, the executive branch is choosing to make them "illegal" and lying that Haiti is safe now. Half a million people were legal. Now they're "illegal". https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/27/haiti-temporary-protected-status-us-immigration https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/27/haiti-temporar... They do not follow due process which is guaranteed by the constitution to all persons in the US (not just citizens). https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2025/jul/13/rosie-odonnell-dismisses-donald-trump-threat-revoke-us-citizenship https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2025/jul/13/rosie-odonne... Trump wants to make Rosie O'Donnell "illegal". What are your thoughts on this?
- jahewson 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - __loam 1y ago
    Right it's just morally repugnant but it's legal so who cares.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    Similarly, the Holocaust was legal under German law, because the Führer willed it so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrerprinzip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrerprinzip Thus illustrating the potential gap between legal and moral.
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      The Führerprinzip mentioned here, by the way, is basically the same argument the conservative supreme court is making right now. They call it Unitary executive theory in the States, but same idea.
ryandrake 1y ago
Anyone, citizen or non-citizen, illegaly here or legally here, can now be kidnapped off the street, stuffed in an unmarked van by masked men not identifying themselves as police, and sent to a foreign prison, without any due process. This is a little bit beyond merely “deporting illegals.”

jahewson 1y ago

[flagged]

stocksinsmocks 1y ago

[flagged]

saubeidl 1y ago
"They only brought a meal once a day and it had maggots. They never take off the lights for 24 hours. The mosquitoes are as big as elephants," La Figura said. "They're not respecting our human rights," one man said during the same call. "We're human beings; we're not dogs. We're like rats in an experiment." "I'm on the edge of losing my mind. I've gone three days without taking my medicine," he said. "It's impossible to sleep with this white light that's on all day." He also claimed his Bible was confiscated. "They took the Bible I had and they said here there is no right to religion. And my Bible is the one thing that keeps my faith, and now I'm losing my faith," he said. https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/alligator-alcatraz-detainees-allege-inhumane-conditions-at-immigration-detention-center/ https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/alligator-alcatraz-detain...
- gruez 1y ago
  inhumane conditions =/= "death camps". There probably is a point where conditions are inhumane enough to cause deaths (think starvation), that it can be called a "death camp" but so far as I can tell from the wikipedia article it's nowhere near that. The article doesn't even mention how many people died there. However, it does mention a poorly supported theory on reddit/X that there's satellite images of body mounds that were subsequently hidden, so that might be what people were thinking of?
const_cast 1y ago
[flagged]
- gruez 1y ago
  >They said CECOT is essentially a death camp - which is true. Because people are held there for life, or that the death rates there are high?

spankalee 1y ago

My comment shouldn't be read in any way as supporting ICE or giving ICE this information. Doing so is clearly illegal under California law, and what ICE is doing right now is terrible. But the prevailing sentiment in these comments is the the cameras shouldn't exist at all, not just that the data shouldn't be shared with ICE. My comment is about how useful the cameras are today. If you want them to not exist you need to understand why they do and probably offer up an alternate solution to the very real problems they address.