4 ms·

if i were to visit any country, and then just randomly stay and try to get a job, I expect that it won't last long. why is this not the case for people that com

if i were to visit any country, and then just randomly stay and try to get a job, I expect that it won't last long. why is this not the case for people that come here?

empath75 1y ago
> if i were to visit any country, and then just randomly stay and try to get a job, I expect that it won't last long. why is this not the case for people that come here? If you have ever gone backpacking for any length of time, you will have met large numbers of people all over the developing world from Europe, Australia and America who are living there and working illegally. In general the result of being caught is being asked to leave and come back with a new visa, and not being violently arrested and thrown into a concentration camp indefinitely.
grafmax 1y ago
Billionaires have funded a coup, supported climate change, mass surveillance, and a genocide in Gaza. Why are they not held to account for their wrongdoing but immigrants are being sent to concentration camps without due process for the crime of crossing border for work? The reason is that billionaires are powerful and hard to unseat, while immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for society’s ills.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
vel0city 1y ago
Do you expect that a properly granted visa will be revoked without any notice and then be quickly hurried off to a for-profit prison without any trial or representation for months?
- almosthere 1y ago
  I expect that if I were to lose my visa status that I would be on a flight within a few days! And with my own money!
  - vel0city 1y ago
    So not in a concentration camp in Florida without ever formally being charged with a crime, correct? Just sent here, without any representation, without any due process, without any clear end date to your confinement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alligator_Alcatraz#/media/File:Interior_of_Alligator_Alcatraz_(July_2025).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alligator_Alcatraz#/media/File... Or quickly sent to the Centro de Confinamiento del Terrorismo in El Salvador, once again without any kind of hearing or choice of potential outcomes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center#/media/File:DHS_Secretary_Kristi_Noem_Travels_to_El_Salvador_(54412500647).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center#/... Do you believe in due process? Do you think it's wrong to send people to these places without any due process, without formally being charged with a crime, and without any clear release date established?
    - almosthere 1y ago
      Honestly, I would rather be in my home country! Due process is the process that is due! It's not a court hearing it's a much more simplified process. If the process to get into the country is next to none, then the process to get out is the same.
      - vel0city 1y ago
        For a lot of these people that was not even a given option. They went from having legal status in the US to being on a plane to a foreign prison without any notice or chance to do anything else.
        almosthere 1y ago
        as far as I know they all had notice on Jan 20. Tom Homan didn't make any moves for a few weeks. And even now, the day they announce alligator alc they said, download CBP Home app and get 1k and a free plane ticket!!!!!!
        1y ago
SauciestGNU 1y ago
Because that's not what it's happening. It's a dragnet of paramilitary forces using skin color to determine who to abduct, and they're kidnapping loads of legal residents and even citizens, because skin color and spoken language are not legitimate proxies for legal residency status.
- jahewson 1y ago
  Why do you use these silly words: “abduct”, “kidnapping”? Those are specific crimes and by trying to exploit the emotional weight of those words instead of making an honest account you come off as unsophisticated and manipulative. If what is happening is so problematic why do you need to describe it in bombastic, provably untrue terms?
  - vel0city 1y ago
    How else do you describe plainclothes "officers" picking up people from the street, putting people into unmarked vehicles, and locking them up in faraway detainment facilities despite never officially charging them with a crime? If it was an arrest, wouldn't they be charged with a crime or released after a short processing time if not actually charged? If it was an arrest, why not have the officers properly identify themselves? Kidnapping does have specific legal meaning depending on jurisdiction. But it also has a common meaning of "the action of abducting someone and holding them captive". Abduction has a common definition of "the action of taking someone away by force or deception". Do these actions not fit these definitions? You're acting like it's impossible for the government to kidnap or abduct people. Seems like quite a limited world view to believe such a thing.
    - jahewson 1y ago
      The ignorance here is just staggering. Every single person arrested for any and all crimes in the US is initially detained without being charged with a crime. This is normal. The police do not charge people with crimes: courts do. This is called an arraignment and it must occur within 48 hours of arrest. There is zero non-standard conduct from ICE in this regard. ICE officers are required to identify themselves “as soon as practical or safe” as a regulation. They are not required to identify themselves in the same manner as state police because they are not state officers, they are federal officers. Federal law applies to them, not state law. Again, zero non-standard conduct from ICE. > Do these actions not fit these definitions? No they absolutely do not, because we’re talking about law enforcement so the only reasonable frame of reference is the legal definition of these words not the “I feel like it” definition. By your definition all arrests are “taking someone away by force” and are therefore abduction: obviously a stupid definition. I think it’s entirely possible for the government to abduct people: please don’t put strawman words into my mouth. You have, however provided zero evidence to make your case and in fact demonstrated quite clearly that you don't understand the most basic everyday workings of our legal system.

if i were to visit any country, and then just randomly stay and try to get a job, I expect that it won't last long. why is this not the case for people that come here?

empath75 1y ago

> if i were to visit any country, and then just randomly stay and try to get a job, I expect that it won't last long. why is this not the case for people that come here? If you have ever gone backpacking for any length of time, you will have met large numbers of people all over the developing world from Europe, Australia and America who are living there and working illegally. In general the result of being caught is being asked to leave and come back with a new visa, and not being violently arrested and thrown into a concentration camp indefinitely.

grafmax 1y ago

Billionaires have funded a coup, supported climate change, mass surveillance, and a genocide in Gaza. Why are they not held to account for their wrongdoing but immigrants are being sent to concentration camps without due process for the crime of crossing border for work? The reason is that billionaires are powerful and hard to unseat, while immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for society’s ills.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

vel0city 1y ago

Do you expect that a properly granted visa will be revoked without any notice and then be quickly hurried off to a for-profit prison without any trial or representation for months?

almosthere 1y ago
I expect that if I were to lose my visa status that I would be on a flight within a few days! And with my own money!
- vel0city 1y ago
  So not in a concentration camp in Florida without ever formally being charged with a crime, correct? Just sent here, without any representation, without any due process, without any clear end date to your confinement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alligator_Alcatraz#/media/File:Interior_of_Alligator_Alcatraz_(July_2025).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alligator_Alcatraz#/media/File... Or quickly sent to the Centro de Confinamiento del Terrorismo in El Salvador, once again without any kind of hearing or choice of potential outcomes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center#/media/File:DHS_Secretary_Kristi_Noem_Travels_to_El_Salvador_(54412500647).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center#/... Do you believe in due process? Do you think it's wrong to send people to these places without any due process, without formally being charged with a crime, and without any clear release date established?
  - almosthere 1y ago
    Honestly, I would rather be in my home country! Due process is the process that is due! It's not a court hearing it's a much more simplified process. If the process to get into the country is next to none, then the process to get out is the same.
    - vel0city 1y ago
      For a lot of these people that was not even a given option. They went from having legal status in the US to being on a plane to a foreign prison without any notice or chance to do anything else.
      - almosthere 1y ago
        as far as I know they all had notice on Jan 20. Tom Homan didn't make any moves for a few weeks. And even now, the day they announce alligator alc they said, download CBP Home app and get 1k and a free plane ticket!!!!!!
        1y ago

SauciestGNU 1y ago

Because that's not what it's happening. It's a dragnet of paramilitary forces using skin color to determine who to abduct, and they're kidnapping loads of legal residents and even citizens, because skin color and spoken language are not legitimate proxies for legal residency status.

jahewson 1y ago
Why do you use these silly words: “abduct”, “kidnapping”? Those are specific crimes and by trying to exploit the emotional weight of those words instead of making an honest account you come off as unsophisticated and manipulative. If what is happening is so problematic why do you need to describe it in bombastic, provably untrue terms?
- vel0city 1y ago
  How else do you describe plainclothes "officers" picking up people from the street, putting people into unmarked vehicles, and locking them up in faraway detainment facilities despite never officially charging them with a crime? If it was an arrest, wouldn't they be charged with a crime or released after a short processing time if not actually charged? If it was an arrest, why not have the officers properly identify themselves? Kidnapping does have specific legal meaning depending on jurisdiction. But it also has a common meaning of "the action of abducting someone and holding them captive". Abduction has a common definition of "the action of taking someone away by force or deception". Do these actions not fit these definitions? You're acting like it's impossible for the government to kidnap or abduct people. Seems like quite a limited world view to believe such a thing.
  - jahewson 1y ago
    The ignorance here is just staggering. Every single person arrested for any and all crimes in the US is initially detained without being charged with a crime. This is normal. The police do not charge people with crimes: courts do. This is called an arraignment and it must occur within 48 hours of arrest. There is zero non-standard conduct from ICE in this regard. ICE officers are required to identify themselves “as soon as practical or safe” as a regulation. They are not required to identify themselves in the same manner as state police because they are not state officers, they are federal officers. Federal law applies to them, not state law. Again, zero non-standard conduct from ICE. > Do these actions not fit these definitions? No they absolutely do not, because we’re talking about law enforcement so the only reasonable frame of reference is the legal definition of these words not the “I feel like it” definition. By your definition all arrests are “taking someone away by force” and are therefore abduction: obviously a stupid definition. I think it’s entirely possible for the government to abduct people: please don’t put strawman words into my mouth. You have, however provided zero evidence to make your case and in fact demonstrated quite clearly that you don't understand the most basic everyday workings of our legal system.