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> New York with cashless bail and non-prosecution of petty crimes. What does that have to do with "defund the police"? Bail money doesn't go into their pockets

> New York with cashless bail and non-prosecution of petty crimes. What does that have to do with "defund the police"? Bail money doesn't go into their pockets.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
It was part of the police reform initiative. I supported it. But it massively increased the street population of recidivist bastards in a way I didn’t expect.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  Conflating "police reform" and "defund the police" is disingenuous.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Conflating "police reform" and "defund the police" is disingenuous In New York they were one and the same. The latter simply representing the most extreme expression of the former. I remember dropping into a leftist conference in Philadelphia years ago where several folks who would become the face of post-Covid police reform were there, including Boudin. At the end of the day they all conceded that their goal was abolishing this, that and the other thing.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      > In New York they were one and the same. As a NY resident: lol. I don't doubt you'll find activists espousing both "defund the police" and "end cash bail" policies at the same time. That doesn't make them the same policy.
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > That doesn't make them the same policy Oh, they’re totally different policies. But they’re basically the same politics. And they both generated a backlash, one against messaging (because it was too stupid to implement) and one against policy (because it created more visible crime).
    - sapphicsnail 1y ago
      A leftist conference? I don't think actual leftists have much say on policy.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  It was never about the recidivist bastards and always about the normal guy with a job he doesn't want to lose not losing that job when he can't come up with bail for a DUI. At least where I was it was considered kind of a given the recidivist bastards would get out on bail and that the bondsman getting paid really doesn't affect outcomes.
  - jahewson 1y ago
    Bail bonds exist.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      And yet, there are plenty of people who can't rustle up a couple hundred bucks for them, and wind up in jail for months/years awaiting trial.
      - ghushn3 1y ago
        In fact, 70% of jail population is not convicted of a crime. Seven-Zero. Roughly half a million people are in jail despite not being convicted of anything. That's roughly 25% of the incarcerated population in the US. 1/4 people behind bars are (presumed) innocent right now, even if they may later be found guilty. That's a problem. Being in jail for a few weeks or even a few days can totally fuck someone's life over, costing them a job, a relationship, their health, or worse.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > It was never about the recidivist bastards and always about the normal guy with a job he doesn't want to lose not losing that job when he can't come up with bail for a DUI And that’s why I supported it. But for every one of the latter there are many of the former because they started cycling through arrests so fast. Keep the recidivist bastard in jail, on the other hand, and they are incapacitated for the time being. I’ll admit I didn’t see the utility of that until it was too late.

> New York with cashless bail and non-prosecution of petty crimes. What does that have to do with "defund the police"? Bail money doesn't go into their pockets.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

It was part of the police reform initiative. I supported it. But it massively increased the street population of recidivist bastards in a way I didn’t expect.

ceejayoz 1y ago
Conflating "police reform" and "defund the police" is disingenuous.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Conflating "police reform" and "defund the police" is disingenuous In New York they were one and the same. The latter simply representing the most extreme expression of the former. I remember dropping into a leftist conference in Philadelphia years ago where several folks who would become the face of post-Covid police reform were there, including Boudin. At the end of the day they all conceded that their goal was abolishing this, that and the other thing.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    > In New York they were one and the same. As a NY resident: lol. I don't doubt you'll find activists espousing both "defund the police" and "end cash bail" policies at the same time. That doesn't make them the same policy.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > That doesn't make them the same policy Oh, they’re totally different policies. But they’re basically the same politics. And they both generated a backlash, one against messaging (because it was too stupid to implement) and one against policy (because it created more visible crime).
  - sapphicsnail 1y ago
    A leftist conference? I don't think actual leftists have much say on policy.
potato3732842 1y ago
It was never about the recidivist bastards and always about the normal guy with a job he doesn't want to lose not losing that job when he can't come up with bail for a DUI. At least where I was it was considered kind of a given the recidivist bastards would get out on bail and that the bondsman getting paid really doesn't affect outcomes.
- jahewson 1y ago
  Bail bonds exist.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    And yet, there are plenty of people who can't rustle up a couple hundred bucks for them, and wind up in jail for months/years awaiting trial.
    - ghushn3 1y ago
      In fact, 70% of jail population is not convicted of a crime. Seven-Zero. Roughly half a million people are in jail despite not being convicted of anything. That's roughly 25% of the incarcerated population in the US. 1/4 people behind bars are (presumed) innocent right now, even if they may later be found guilty. That's a problem. Being in jail for a few weeks or even a few days can totally fuck someone's life over, costing them a job, a relationship, their health, or worse.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > It was never about the recidivist bastards and always about the normal guy with a job he doesn't want to lose not losing that job when he can't come up with bail for a DUI And that’s why I supported it. But for every one of the latter there are many of the former because they started cycling through arrests so fast. Keep the recidivist bastard in jail, on the other hand, and they are incapacitated for the time being. I’ll admit I didn’t see the utility of that until it was too late.