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> The law enforcement agencies which behaved the way law enforcement agencies always behave and did what anyone with even the slightest familiarity with how law

> The law enforcement agencies which behaved the way law enforcement agencies always behave and did what anyone with even the slightest familiarity with how law enforcement acts thought they would do with the data. This outcome was 1000% predictable even if the details were not. It was predictable that law enforcement agencies would... try to enforce the law?

ceejayoz 1y ago
> It was predictable that law enforcement agencies would... try to enforce the law? By breaking a different one? I mean, yeah, it's predictable. But it's not great.
- rayiner 1y ago
  If you think that's bad, you should dig into state agency violations of PRWORA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Work_Opportunity_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Wo.... Lot's of illegal conduct going on in blue states.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    What, this? https://www.feldesman.com/hhs-announces-major-changes-to-its-interpretation-of-prwora/ https://www.feldesman.com/hhs-announces-major-changes-to-its... > HHS rescinded its 1998 interpretation of the term (63 FR 41658) and expanded the agency’s interpretation of “Federal public benefit” to include programs, including Head Start and numerous community health-related programs. Yeah, I'm not inclined to view clear and open violations of a law the same as "the Feds said it was fine for 27 years, including Trump's first term". You'll need stronger whataboutism than that.
    - rayiner 1y ago
      There's lots of programs being funded that aren't covered by that HHS guidance.
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        Then why don't you highlight a specific case we can talk about, rather than darkly but vaguely hinting?
CalChris 1y ago
In sharing the license plate data, how was the OPD enforcing the law? Which laws, exactly which laws, was the OPD enforcing?
- leoqa 1y ago
  The use was audited and is now being investigated. The claims were for various local and federal investigations. ICE also contains HSI, the second largest federal law enforcement agency, which prior to their recent mandate has been tasked to solve sex trafficking, import fraud etc. SF has multiple large inter-agency task forces that run multi-year long investigations into all types of crimes. HSI is part of those investigations. Querying flock to establish a suspect’s presence during the commission of a crime seems like it’s within the bounds of reasonable use.
  - CalChris 1y ago
    Querying which flock to establish which suspect’s presence during the commission of which crime seems like it’s within the bounds of what reasonable use? I think you've replaced the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave with Round up the usual suspects.
- rayiner 1y ago
  > In sharing the license plate data, how was the OPD enforcing the law? ... the immigration laws? Folks should read the immigration laws. They're actually quite draconian against not only illegal immigration, but anyone who aids and abets illegal immigration. We've just had decades of non-enforcement.
  - CalChris 1y ago
    No, the immigration laws are not draconian. They have guidelines around reunification of families, etc. The Reagan era Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 even legalized most illegals from before 1982. That wasn't draconian either. You should read these laws. Trumpian enforcement? Now that's draconian. It's also economically stupid. And I'm sure you understand the concept of clean hands. So further discussion of Melania and Rosie O'Donnell's citizenship will be unnecessary. But then this all is just red meat tossed to consumers of red meat. So there's that.
mrguyorama 1y ago
[flagged]
- rayiner 1y ago
  > For example, a cop cannot just steal a 3rd party's database to get the evidence they are after. Except we're talking about the state's own license plate data, not stealing someone else's data. Since it is California's data, California can complain that Oakland police shared it impermissibly. (Good luck with that!) But that doesn't create a constitutional issue.

ceejayoz 1y ago

> It was predictable that law enforcement agencies would... try to enforce the law? By breaking a different one? I mean, yeah, it's predictable. But it's not great.

rayiner 1y ago
If you think that's bad, you should dig into state agency violations of PRWORA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Work_Opportunity_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Wo.... Lot's of illegal conduct going on in blue states.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  What, this? https://www.feldesman.com/hhs-announces-major-changes-to-its-interpretation-of-prwora/ https://www.feldesman.com/hhs-announces-major-changes-to-its... > HHS rescinded its 1998 interpretation of the term (63 FR 41658) and expanded the agency’s interpretation of “Federal public benefit” to include programs, including Head Start and numerous community health-related programs. Yeah, I'm not inclined to view clear and open violations of a law the same as "the Feds said it was fine for 27 years, including Trump's first term". You'll need stronger whataboutism than that.
  - rayiner 1y ago
    There's lots of programs being funded that aren't covered by that HHS guidance.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      Then why don't you highlight a specific case we can talk about, rather than darkly but vaguely hinting?

CalChris 1y ago

In sharing the license plate data, how was the OPD enforcing the law? Which laws, exactly which laws, was the OPD enforcing?

leoqa 1y ago
The use was audited and is now being investigated. The claims were for various local and federal investigations. ICE also contains HSI, the second largest federal law enforcement agency, which prior to their recent mandate has been tasked to solve sex trafficking, import fraud etc. SF has multiple large inter-agency task forces that run multi-year long investigations into all types of crimes. HSI is part of those investigations. Querying flock to establish a suspect’s presence during the commission of a crime seems like it’s within the bounds of reasonable use.
- CalChris 1y ago
  Querying which flock to establish which suspect’s presence during the commission of which crime seems like it’s within the bounds of what reasonable use? I think you've replaced the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave with Round up the usual suspects.
rayiner 1y ago
> In sharing the license plate data, how was the OPD enforcing the law? ... the immigration laws? Folks should read the immigration laws. They're actually quite draconian against not only illegal immigration, but anyone who aids and abets illegal immigration. We've just had decades of non-enforcement.
- CalChris 1y ago
  No, the immigration laws are not draconian. They have guidelines around reunification of families, etc. The Reagan era Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 even legalized most illegals from before 1982. That wasn't draconian either. You should read these laws. Trumpian enforcement? Now that's draconian. It's also economically stupid. And I'm sure you understand the concept of clean hands. So further discussion of Melania and Rosie O'Donnell's citizenship will be unnecessary. But then this all is just red meat tossed to consumers of red meat. So there's that.

mrguyorama 1y ago

[flagged]

rayiner 1y ago
> For example, a cop cannot just steal a 3rd party's database to get the evidence they are after. Except we're talking about the state's own license plate data, not stealing someone else's data. Since it is California's data, California can complain that Oakland police shared it impermissibly. (Good luck with that!) But that doesn't create a constitutional issue.