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Why is it illegal to uphold federal law? Isn't it the state law that is illegal in this case?

by peterfirefly 1y ago

aprilthird2021 1y ago
Marijuana was legalized in contravention to federal law
- rapatel0 1y ago
  The supremacy clause of the constitution asserts that federal law takes precedence over state laws. There are thousands of state laws on the books that are basically rendered null, because a federal law overrides it. One clear example is segregation which was on the books in some states decades after the civil rights movement. The federal government and DOJ has declined to prosecute Marijuana, but they definitely have the right to do so.
  - aprilthird2021 1y ago
    > One clear example is segregation which was on the books in some states decades after the civil rights movement. Some states took over a decade after Brown v Board to actually integrate school systems. So again, another instance of state laws seeming to trump federal laws. If the idea is just not enforcing the supremacy of federal laws is enough, then not enforcing the federal law over the state law which bar sharing info with federal agencies is also in place here so far
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- Gormo 1y ago
  No -- states repealing their own laws against marijuana have nothing to do with federal law, and do not prevent the feds from enforcing their own laws in any way. The states are not obligated to implement their own policies in order to further federal interests, nor to participate in the enforcement of federal law.
pjlk 1y ago
If you think it's illegal, explain how. Don't just toss out innuendos.
grafmax 1y ago
It’s strange to me that we see people being rounded up and sent to concentration camps and many people consider lawfulness to be sufficient justification. No, right and wrong don’t derive from laws. It’s supposed to be the other way round.
- almosthere 1y ago
  if i were to visit any country, and then just randomly stay and try to get a job, I expect that it won't last long. why is this not the case for people that come here?
  - empath75 1y ago
    > if i were to visit any country, and then just randomly stay and try to get a job, I expect that it won't last long. why is this not the case for people that come here? If you have ever gone backpacking for any length of time, you will have met large numbers of people all over the developing world from Europe, Australia and America who are living there and working illegally. In general the result of being caught is being asked to leave and come back with a new visa, and not being violently arrested and thrown into a concentration camp indefinitely.
  - grafmax 1y ago
    Billionaires have funded a coup, supported climate change, mass surveillance, and a genocide in Gaza. Why are they not held to account for their wrongdoing but immigrants are being sent to concentration camps without due process for the crime of crossing border for work? The reason is that billionaires are powerful and hard to unseat, while immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for society’s ills.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - vel0city 1y ago
    Do you expect that a properly granted visa will be revoked without any notice and then be quickly hurried off to a for-profit prison without any trial or representation for months?
dontlikeyoueith 1y ago
Which federal law exactly requires states to spend money to enforce federal law? I'll give you a hint: none.
- Gormo 1y ago
  In fact, under well-established constitutional law it is illegal for the federal government to attempt to compel state governments to enforce federal law. US states are sovereign in their own right and are not administrative arms of the federal government.
Gormo 1y ago
A state law can only be illegal if it violates the state's own constitution or the US constitution. States are not obligated to participate in the enforcement of federal law, and are entitled to control the official conduct of their own officers and agencies. If a state has a law that prohibits local police officers from furnishing data to federal agencies, that law is completely valid, and officers that act contrary to it are in violation of state law.
ted_dunning 1y ago
It is illegal to spend state money (i.e. wages for state and local police) to enforce federal law (the feds have their own budget for that). California law also makes it illegal to do federal enforcement with state resources and specifically makes sharing this license plate information with federal investigators by state and local police illegal. This has nothing to do with the supremacy of federal law over state law. It has to do with who does the enforcement of these laws. It is similarly illegal for me to enforce federal law, but I am certainly bound by it.

Why is it illegal to uphold federal law? Isn't it the state law that is illegal in this case?

aprilthird2021 1y ago

Marijuana was legalized in contravention to federal law

rapatel0 1y ago
The supremacy clause of the constitution asserts that federal law takes precedence over state laws. There are thousands of state laws on the books that are basically rendered null, because a federal law overrides it. One clear example is segregation which was on the books in some states decades after the civil rights movement. The federal government and DOJ has declined to prosecute Marijuana, but they definitely have the right to do so.
- aprilthird2021 1y ago
  > One clear example is segregation which was on the books in some states decades after the civil rights movement. Some states took over a decade after Brown v Board to actually integrate school systems. So again, another instance of state laws seeming to trump federal laws. If the idea is just not enforcing the supremacy of federal laws is enough, then not enforcing the federal law over the state law which bar sharing info with federal agencies is also in place here so far
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Gormo 1y ago
No -- states repealing their own laws against marijuana have nothing to do with federal law, and do not prevent the feds from enforcing their own laws in any way. The states are not obligated to implement their own policies in order to further federal interests, nor to participate in the enforcement of federal law.

pjlk 1y ago

If you think it's illegal, explain how. Don't just toss out innuendos.

grafmax 1y ago

It’s strange to me that we see people being rounded up and sent to concentration camps and many people consider lawfulness to be sufficient justification. No, right and wrong don’t derive from laws. It’s supposed to be the other way round.

almosthere 1y ago
if i were to visit any country, and then just randomly stay and try to get a job, I expect that it won't last long. why is this not the case for people that come here?
- empath75 1y ago
  > if i were to visit any country, and then just randomly stay and try to get a job, I expect that it won't last long. why is this not the case for people that come here? If you have ever gone backpacking for any length of time, you will have met large numbers of people all over the developing world from Europe, Australia and America who are living there and working illegally. In general the result of being caught is being asked to leave and come back with a new visa, and not being violently arrested and thrown into a concentration camp indefinitely.
- grafmax 1y ago
  Billionaires have funded a coup, supported climate change, mass surveillance, and a genocide in Gaza. Why are they not held to account for their wrongdoing but immigrants are being sent to concentration camps without due process for the crime of crossing border for work? The reason is that billionaires are powerful and hard to unseat, while immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for society’s ills.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- vel0city 1y ago
  Do you expect that a properly granted visa will be revoked without any notice and then be quickly hurried off to a for-profit prison without any trial or representation for months?

dontlikeyoueith 1y ago

Which federal law exactly requires states to spend money to enforce federal law? I'll give you a hint: none.

Gormo 1y ago
In fact, under well-established constitutional law it is illegal for the federal government to attempt to compel state governments to enforce federal law. US states are sovereign in their own right and are not administrative arms of the federal government.

Gormo 1y ago

A state law can only be illegal if it violates the state's own constitution or the US constitution. States are not obligated to participate in the enforcement of federal law, and are entitled to control the official conduct of their own officers and agencies. If a state has a law that prohibits local police officers from furnishing data to federal agencies, that law is completely valid, and officers that act contrary to it are in violation of state law.

ted_dunning 1y ago

It is illegal to spend state money (i.e. wages for state and local police) to enforce federal law (the feds have their own budget for that). California law also makes it illegal to do federal enforcement with state resources and specifically makes sharing this license plate information with federal investigators by state and local police illegal. This has nothing to do with the supremacy of federal law over state law. It has to do with who does the enforcement of these laws. It is similarly illegal for me to enforce federal law, but I am certainly bound by it.