8 ms·

Here my problem with this: I don't want to be jumping an editor/IDE every 6 months, learning new key bindings and even more importantly, getting used to a compl

Here my problem with this: I don't want to be jumping an editor/IDE every 6 months, learning new key bindings and even more importantly, getting used to a completely new look. In a space that moves as quickly as "AI" does, it is inevitable that a better and cheaper solution will pop up at some point. We kinda already see it with Cursor and Windsurf. I guess Claude Code is all the rage now and I personally think CLI/TUI is the way to go for anyone that has a similar view. That said, I'm sure there's a very big user base (probably bigger than terminal group) that will enjoy using this and other GUI apps.

joelthelion 1y ago
The nice thing about CLI/TUI is that you can keep using your editor or IDE of choice and chat with the AI on the side.
ativzzz 1y ago
Totally agreed, which is why I'm sticking with my editor (neovim) regardless of whatever AI thing is hot and using tools outside/analogous to it, currently claude code
znpy 1y ago
> Here my problem with this: I don't want to be jumping an editor/IDE every 6 months, learning new key bindings and even more importantly, getting used to a completely new look. You're basically advocating for GNU Emacs: https://github.com/karthink/gptel https://github.com/karthink/gptel
- suralind 1y ago
  Thanks for the link. I'm not an emacs user and I'm more in the search of something like opencode [1], but I think it's not polished enough yet. I actually want to contribute to open source, so maybe I should create my own thing, heh. [1]: https://github.com/sst/opencode https://github.com/sst/opencode
- aquariusDue 1y ago
  gptel is great, its one of the must have packages for Emacs and I'm pretty sure that with time it will be one of the reasons to use Emacs like org-mode has been for a long time. For people wanting to get up and running with vanilla Emacs (instead of a distribution) so that they can try out gptel sometime this week, I recommend emacs-bedrock: https://codeberg.org/ashton314/emacs-bedrock https://codeberg.org/ashton314/emacs-bedrock And for a gptel backend Gemini is the fastest route (excluding something local) from generating an API key to using a LLM in Emacs (for free). Bonus points because Emacs is useful for things other than coding you can use gptel on your notes or any buffer really to ask/talk about stuff.
TimMeade 1y ago
Every 6 months? It's turning into every two weeks. Sticking with claude code. Its working beautifully for us.
- MuffinFlavored 1y ago
  I have a question. I do not like the concept of "agent mode" for AI. I'm a control freak and I want to control every line that gets committed because I am responsible for it and need to understand/visualize/memorize every part of codebases I work on. Is Claude Code good for the "ask" flow? No, right? The old flow before agent mode got added. Select some code, ask questions about it or give an instruction on editing it and then choose to accept the change. As I understand (I could be wrong), with agent mode, it edits the file for you, no way for you to accept before it does, so you have to manually check the diff, roll back parts you don't want, etc. Am I right?
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    I like aider's solution of encapsulating each edit in a git commit; I hope that gets widely adopted.
    - olivermuty 1y ago
      Add two lines to CLAUDE.md and claude code can do this as well :)
    - NitpickLawyer 1y ago
      Unfortunately aider is showing its age. It is great for what it does, but better LLMs + "agentic" have shown that you can get more in the swe domain. There was a paper recently where they had an LLM evolve tool harnesses and got ~20% more than w/ aider on the benchmark they used, so it's pretty clear that the models + tools (+better harness) are better than just aider.
      - FergusArgyll 1y ago
        1) You can plug in any model into aider 2) It can be quite agentic > evolve tool harnesses Claude code & Gemini cli etc. don't do this either
bryanlarsen 1y ago
They're all based vscode, so the switching costs are fairly minimal? It'll get worse over time as they diverge, but at the moment they're all fairly similar AFAICT. It's starting to become noticeable that Cursor isn't picking up VSCode enhancements and fixes, but it's still quite minor.
- suralind 1y ago
  Not really, even at work I got to test couple different AI solutions and the experience is always slightly different, even if the editor is the same, for the most part. It's the tiny things like using the prompt template, or opening the panel. (I could, of course, make an attempt to customize the keybindings, but why bother when it changes so quickly.)
  - scarface_74 1y ago
    The entire idea that “I’m too cool to use an IDE” I find kind of dumb. I was using a Turbo C IDE in college in 1994, Visual Studio until 2019 and since then VSCode.
    - Oreb 1y ago
      I don’t think “I’m too cool to use an IDE” was the point being made. The point is that having to switch IDEs every time the number one AI coding tool changes would be annoying.
- guluarte 1y ago
  only if you use vscode, I think TUIs are a better option since a lot of us use other ides than vscode
  - theturtletalks 1y ago
    Seems like Amazon started making this when Cursor was hot in the market, but now that CLI agents like Claude Code are taking over, Kiro will have an uphill battle. It’s also not free or unlimited (though throttled) like Cursor and Claude Code using max plan.
factorialboy 1y ago
CLI -> Voice & Gesture UI
eulers_secret 1y ago
YUP! This is why I've settled on Aider and it's "IDE integration" (watches all files for comments that end in "AI!", which then invokes the AI). I can then use it with whatever editor I prefer. I view the vscode mono-culture as a bad thing. I also like I can use any AI backend I like, which is really how it should be: Vendor lock-in tools are bad, remember? I guess you lose tab-completion suggestions, but I am not a fan of those compared to 'normal' tab-complete (if backed by an lang server). If I want AI, I'll write a short comment and invoke the tool explicitly. EDIT: Of course, it really depends an your usecase. I maintain/upgrade C code libs and utils; I really cannot speak to what works best for your env! Webdev is truly a different world. EDIT2: Can't leave this alone for some reason, the backend thing is a big deal. Switching between Claude/Gemini/Deekseek and even rando models like Qwen or Kimi is awesome, they can fill in each other's holes or unblock a model which is 'stuck'.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
seydor 1y ago
people are trying to find a moat that will bind their userbase. Browsers, editors, apps etc. There must be a format that locks users in so they will try them all one after another
crinkly 1y ago
This is why you will have to pry vim and my own brain out of my cold dead hands. It’s not just the IDE but the ML model you are selling yourself to. I see my colleagues atrophy before me. I see their tools melt in their hands. I am rapidly becoming the only person functionally capable of reason on my own. It’s very very weird. When the model money dries up what’s going to happen?
- ryandvm 1y ago
  I dunno. There's also a good chance that you just end up being left behind like graybeards that only wanted to code in C and assembler. I too am old enough to have seen a lot of unnecessary tech change cycles, and one thing I've noticed about this industry is no matter how foolish a trend was, we almost never unwind it.
  - crinkly 1y ago
    I get paid a fuck load of money to write C. Your point is? As for trends, I've been around long enough to have seen this cycle a couple of times...
    - ryandvm 1y ago
      > I get paid a fuck load of money to write C. Your point is? My point is there aren't many of you, are there? All things considered, keeping up with the industry trends is generally a more reliable career path.
      - crinkly 1y ago
        Correct but we are never fungible. That’s the trick for a reliable career. I’ve survived every single layoff season since 1995.
        knowsuchagency 1y ago
        Ironically, Claude Code has me working in lower-level languages with more low-level tools than ever before, simply because of how powerful it is, particularly as a terminal tool. I've always been more of a GUI person, but now the editor I use most often is Helix. If I've atrophied in certain aspects of my thinking, I honestly think I've more than made up for it in learning how to engineer the context and requirements for Claude Code more effectively and to quickly dive in to fix things without taking my hands off the keyboard and leaving the terminal.
polynomial 1y ago
> learning new key bindings Why are they shipping them with different key bindings? Seems like the opposite of what you do to encourage product adoption.
didibus 1y ago
They have a CLI similar to Claude Code already: https://github.com/aws/amazon-q-developer-cli https://github.com/aws/amazon-q-developer-cli
yakattak 1y ago
All of these agentic IDEs could just be visual studio code plugins. They’re likely not because how do you secure VC funding for a plugin?
- umeshunni 1y ago
  More importantly - how do you monetize a plugin?
  - tacker2000 1y ago
    There are lots of ecosystems where pro users pay for plugins to get extra features. See the ecommerce domain, jetbrains, even ms teams has plugins that are paid. VSCode has some popular paid plugins like LSPs or some for git. I dont see why it wouldnt be possible to monetize a VSCode plugin.
  - jjani 1y ago
    You.. require a subscription. These have existed long before LLM-assisted coding was a thing.
- dcreater 1y ago
  But Continue and a bunch of others literally did that. The better question is why is there this horrible monoculture in SW startups around raising money through VCs? We need more regular businesses who build something useful and charge a fair price. Period.
  - lnalx 1y ago
    Simply put, without VC funding, these services would cost hundreds of dollars per month, and nobody would pay those prices. Companies like Anthropic can offer $20 plans precisely because they have venture capital backing. Consumers will always gravitate toward the more affordable option.
apwell23 1y ago
this project was conceived when cursor was the king of vibecoding. Everyone thought being an IDE would give you so much more power.
bob1029 1y ago
I've been thinking about developing a VSIX for Visual Studio 2022 that wraps my typical ChatGPT flow in the intellisense UX. I don't mind that everyone is all-in with VSCode now, but I already paid $500 for the big-boy version and I've got 20k hours on it.
jillesvangurp 1y ago
What I like about OpenAI's codex is that it's not an IDE but a web based product that does things asynchronously from your normal workflow. It creates branches and pull requests. And you can iterate with it via git instead of working in the same tool. So, I can use the tools I use anyway and have AIs adapt to me instead of me having to adapt to new AI powered tools. I'm using a proper IDE (intellij). Me switching to cursor, kiro, or whatever would be an enormously massive downgrade for me. These tools don't come close to the utility and features of what I am used to and depend on. And those new AI tools trying to catch up with Intellij is not their focus or roadmap. I'm not going to wait for that to happen. I need stuff that works now. Not some years after they figure it out. And that includes AI features. There's a difference between vibe coding where you are sitting on your hands and admiring all the crazy clever stuff the AI does for you that you wouldn't be able to do yourself and working on a system that you've spent years building from scratch with AI to assist you. I do the latter. I'm constantly intervening, dismissing poor results from AI, getting frustrated with LLMs misunderstanding things, ignoring my directions, not getting the full context, etc. But I'm also getting a lot of value out of AIS with dealing with tedious/repetitive stuff, figuring out weird bugs, pointing out my mistakes, or generating perfectly usable solutions for TODOs and FIXMEs I leave in my code. About 50-60% of the PRs codex creates for me are pretty usable. I use ChatGPT for the small stuff (it can look at intellij and apply diffs) and codex for the bigger stuff "implement foo, add some tests, and tell me when I can look at the PR". And maybe I'll check out the branch and fix a few things myself. That's something my IDE supports very well. It's not a big deal. It doesn't need to be fixed. I find that increasingly, model quality is not the main blocker for this stuff but the developer/user experience is. Claude might be better. But chat gpt has the far better UX. And I don't even use o3 most of the time. I prefer the more rapid responses other faster models give me. It's not a cost thing but a speed thing. I only escalate to slower models when I don't like the response I'm getting. Codex is nice but slooooooow. But at least I can work on other stuff while it is doing its thing. ChatGPT gives me instant gratification. Select line, Option+shift+1, "Fix this", "....", "apply fix". That's so nice and I do that a lot. And I didn't have to replace my tools. In the same way, Claude code might be marginally better at some stuff. But the Codex developer experience is superior. So, Kiro sounds like a nice tool for people who don't need or use IDEs. But it's not for me.
- 1y ago
Andys 1y ago
Try kilocode - https://kilocode.ai/ https://kilocode.ai/ Its a VScode extension and allows different LLMs to be used.

joelthelion 1y ago

The nice thing about CLI/TUI is that you can keep using your editor or IDE of choice and chat with the AI on the side.

ativzzz 1y ago

Totally agreed, which is why I'm sticking with my editor (neovim) regardless of whatever AI thing is hot and using tools outside/analogous to it, currently claude code

znpy 1y ago

> Here my problem with this: I don't want to be jumping an editor/IDE every 6 months, learning new key bindings and even more importantly, getting used to a completely new look. You're basically advocating for GNU Emacs: https://github.com/karthink/gptel https://github.com/karthink/gptel

suralind 1y ago
Thanks for the link. I'm not an emacs user and I'm more in the search of something like opencode [1], but I think it's not polished enough yet. I actually want to contribute to open source, so maybe I should create my own thing, heh. [1]: https://github.com/sst/opencode https://github.com/sst/opencode
aquariusDue 1y ago
gptel is great, its one of the must have packages for Emacs and I'm pretty sure that with time it will be one of the reasons to use Emacs like org-mode has been for a long time. For people wanting to get up and running with vanilla Emacs (instead of a distribution) so that they can try out gptel sometime this week, I recommend emacs-bedrock: https://codeberg.org/ashton314/emacs-bedrock https://codeberg.org/ashton314/emacs-bedrock And for a gptel backend Gemini is the fastest route (excluding something local) from generating an API key to using a LLM in Emacs (for free). Bonus points because Emacs is useful for things other than coding you can use gptel on your notes or any buffer really to ask/talk about stuff.

TimMeade 1y ago

Every 6 months? It's turning into every two weeks. Sticking with claude code. Its working beautifully for us.

MuffinFlavored 1y ago
I have a question. I do not like the concept of "agent mode" for AI. I'm a control freak and I want to control every line that gets committed because I am responsible for it and need to understand/visualize/memorize every part of codebases I work on. Is Claude Code good for the "ask" flow? No, right? The old flow before agent mode got added. Select some code, ask questions about it or give an instruction on editing it and then choose to accept the change. As I understand (I could be wrong), with agent mode, it edits the file for you, no way for you to accept before it does, so you have to manually check the diff, roll back parts you don't want, etc. Am I right?
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  I like aider's solution of encapsulating each edit in a git commit; I hope that gets widely adopted.
  - olivermuty 1y ago
    Add two lines to CLAUDE.md and claude code can do this as well :)
  - NitpickLawyer 1y ago
    Unfortunately aider is showing its age. It is great for what it does, but better LLMs + "agentic" have shown that you can get more in the swe domain. There was a paper recently where they had an LLM evolve tool harnesses and got ~20% more than w/ aider on the benchmark they used, so it's pretty clear that the models + tools (+better harness) are better than just aider.
    - FergusArgyll 1y ago
      1) You can plug in any model into aider 2) It can be quite agentic > evolve tool harnesses Claude code & Gemini cli etc. don't do this either

bryanlarsen 1y ago

They're all based vscode, so the switching costs are fairly minimal? It'll get worse over time as they diverge, but at the moment they're all fairly similar AFAICT. It's starting to become noticeable that Cursor isn't picking up VSCode enhancements and fixes, but it's still quite minor.

suralind 1y ago
Not really, even at work I got to test couple different AI solutions and the experience is always slightly different, even if the editor is the same, for the most part. It's the tiny things like using the prompt template, or opening the panel. (I could, of course, make an attempt to customize the keybindings, but why bother when it changes so quickly.)
- scarface_74 1y ago
  The entire idea that “I’m too cool to use an IDE” I find kind of dumb. I was using a Turbo C IDE in college in 1994, Visual Studio until 2019 and since then VSCode.
  - Oreb 1y ago
    I don’t think “I’m too cool to use an IDE” was the point being made. The point is that having to switch IDEs every time the number one AI coding tool changes would be annoying.
guluarte 1y ago
only if you use vscode, I think TUIs are a better option since a lot of us use other ides than vscode
- theturtletalks 1y ago
  Seems like Amazon started making this when Cursor was hot in the market, but now that CLI agents like Claude Code are taking over, Kiro will have an uphill battle. It’s also not free or unlimited (though throttled) like Cursor and Claude Code using max plan.

factorialboy 1y ago

CLI -> Voice & Gesture UI

eulers_secret 1y ago

YUP! This is why I've settled on Aider and it's "IDE integration" (watches all files for comments that end in "AI!", which then invokes the AI). I can then use it with whatever editor I prefer. I view the vscode mono-culture as a bad thing. I also like I can use any AI backend I like, which is really how it should be: Vendor lock-in tools are bad, remember? I guess you lose tab-completion suggestions, but I am not a fan of those compared to 'normal' tab-complete (if backed by an lang server). If I want AI, I'll write a short comment and invoke the tool explicitly. EDIT: Of course, it really depends an your usecase. I maintain/upgrade C code libs and utils; I really cannot speak to what works best for your env! Webdev is truly a different world. EDIT2: Can't leave this alone for some reason, the backend thing is a big deal. Switching between Claude/Gemini/Deekseek and even rando models like Qwen or Kimi is awesome, they can fill in each other's holes or unblock a model which is 'stuck'.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

seydor 1y ago

people are trying to find a moat that will bind their userbase. Browsers, editors, apps etc. There must be a format that locks users in so they will try them all one after another

crinkly 1y ago

This is why you will have to pry vim and my own brain out of my cold dead hands. It’s not just the IDE but the ML model you are selling yourself to. I see my colleagues atrophy before me. I see their tools melt in their hands. I am rapidly becoming the only person functionally capable of reason on my own. It’s very very weird. When the model money dries up what’s going to happen?

ryandvm 1y ago
I dunno. There's also a good chance that you just end up being left behind like graybeards that only wanted to code in C and assembler. I too am old enough to have seen a lot of unnecessary tech change cycles, and one thing I've noticed about this industry is no matter how foolish a trend was, we almost never unwind it.
- crinkly 1y ago
  I get paid a fuck load of money to write C. Your point is? As for trends, I've been around long enough to have seen this cycle a couple of times...
  - ryandvm 1y ago
    > I get paid a fuck load of money to write C. Your point is? My point is there aren't many of you, are there? All things considered, keeping up with the industry trends is generally a more reliable career path.
    - crinkly 1y ago
      Correct but we are never fungible. That’s the trick for a reliable career. I’ve survived every single layoff season since 1995.
      - knowsuchagency 1y ago
        Ironically, Claude Code has me working in lower-level languages with more low-level tools than ever before, simply because of how powerful it is, particularly as a terminal tool. I've always been more of a GUI person, but now the editor I use most often is Helix. If I've atrophied in certain aspects of my thinking, I honestly think I've more than made up for it in learning how to engineer the context and requirements for Claude Code more effectively and to quickly dive in to fix things without taking my hands off the keyboard and leaving the terminal.

polynomial 1y ago

> learning new key bindings Why are they shipping them with different key bindings? Seems like the opposite of what you do to encourage product adoption.

didibus 1y ago

They have a CLI similar to Claude Code already: https://github.com/aws/amazon-q-developer-cli https://github.com/aws/amazon-q-developer-cli

yakattak 1y ago

All of these agentic IDEs could just be visual studio code plugins. They’re likely not because how do you secure VC funding for a plugin?

umeshunni 1y ago
More importantly - how do you monetize a plugin?
- tacker2000 1y ago
  There are lots of ecosystems where pro users pay for plugins to get extra features. See the ecommerce domain, jetbrains, even ms teams has plugins that are paid. VSCode has some popular paid plugins like LSPs or some for git. I dont see why it wouldnt be possible to monetize a VSCode plugin.
- jjani 1y ago
  You.. require a subscription. These have existed long before LLM-assisted coding was a thing.
dcreater 1y ago
But Continue and a bunch of others literally did that. The better question is why is there this horrible monoculture in SW startups around raising money through VCs? We need more regular businesses who build something useful and charge a fair price. Period.
- lnalx 1y ago
  Simply put, without VC funding, these services would cost hundreds of dollars per month, and nobody would pay those prices. Companies like Anthropic can offer $20 plans precisely because they have venture capital backing. Consumers will always gravitate toward the more affordable option.

apwell23 1y ago

this project was conceived when cursor was the king of vibecoding. Everyone thought being an IDE would give you so much more power.

bob1029 1y ago

I've been thinking about developing a VSIX for Visual Studio 2022 that wraps my typical ChatGPT flow in the intellisense UX. I don't mind that everyone is all-in with VSCode now, but I already paid $500 for the big-boy version and I've got 20k hours on it.

jillesvangurp 1y ago

What I like about OpenAI's codex is that it's not an IDE but a web based product that does things asynchronously from your normal workflow. It creates branches and pull requests. And you can iterate with it via git instead of working in the same tool. So, I can use the tools I use anyway and have AIs adapt to me instead of me having to adapt to new AI powered tools. I'm using a proper IDE (intellij). Me switching to cursor, kiro, or whatever would be an enormously massive downgrade for me. These tools don't come close to the utility and features of what I am used to and depend on. And those new AI tools trying to catch up with Intellij is not their focus or roadmap. I'm not going to wait for that to happen. I need stuff that works now. Not some years after they figure it out. And that includes AI features. There's a difference between vibe coding where you are sitting on your hands and admiring all the crazy clever stuff the AI does for you that you wouldn't be able to do yourself and working on a system that you've spent years building from scratch with AI to assist you. I do the latter. I'm constantly intervening, dismissing poor results from AI, getting frustrated with LLMs misunderstanding things, ignoring my directions, not getting the full context, etc. But I'm also getting a lot of value out of AIS with dealing with tedious/repetitive stuff, figuring out weird bugs, pointing out my mistakes, or generating perfectly usable solutions for TODOs and FIXMEs I leave in my code. About 50-60% of the PRs codex creates for me are pretty usable. I use ChatGPT for the small stuff (it can look at intellij and apply diffs) and codex for the bigger stuff "implement foo, add some tests, and tell me when I can look at the PR". And maybe I'll check out the branch and fix a few things myself. That's something my IDE supports very well. It's not a big deal. It doesn't need to be fixed. I find that increasingly, model quality is not the main blocker for this stuff but the developer/user experience is. Claude might be better. But chat gpt has the far better UX. And I don't even use o3 most of the time. I prefer the more rapid responses other faster models give me. It's not a cost thing but a speed thing. I only escalate to slower models when I don't like the response I'm getting. Codex is nice but slooooooow. But at least I can work on other stuff while it is doing its thing. ChatGPT gives me instant gratification. Select line, Option+shift+1, "Fix this", "....", "apply fix". That's so nice and I do that a lot. And I didn't have to replace my tools. In the same way, Claude code might be marginally better at some stuff. But the Codex developer experience is superior. So, Kiro sounds like a nice tool for people who don't need or use IDEs. But it's not for me.

1y ago

Andys 1y ago

Try kilocode - https://kilocode.ai/ https://kilocode.ai/ Its a VScode extension and allows different LLMs to be used.