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> Of those, mom-and-pop investors, or those who own between 1 and 5 homes, account for 85% of all investor-owned residential properties, while those with betwee

> Of those, mom-and-pop investors, or those who own between 1 and 5 homes, account for 85% of all investor-owned residential properties, while those with between 6 and 10 properties account for another 5%.

blindriver 1y ago
1 home qualifies you as an invrestor? So I’m an investor? That definition is whacked it should be at least 2 homes.
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  1 and 5 non-primary residence.
- jodrellblank 1y ago
  “I own no homes, and am buying a home” “I own one home, and am buying a house” “That makes you an investor” “No that’s whack. When I buy a third - buying while owning two - then I will be an investor” You have an off-by-one error.
  - selimthegrim 1y ago
    I own no homes, and must scream.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - phil21 1y ago
      These stats are tracking folks who buy a second property intended as an investment - typically renting it out but not always. You’re not a mom and pop landlord if you’re just buying a second home to move into with intent to sell your current one.
      - potato3732842 1y ago
        >You’re not a mom and pop landlord if you’re just buying a second home to move into with intent to sell your current one. That's my point. The person I'm replying to is being obtuse and sarcastically arguing that the investor criteria requires owning 3+ as an attempt to use absurdity to force people to admit that 2+ makes you an "investor" thereby classifying the people who are simply swapping homes like you stated as "investors".
        jodrellblank 1y ago
        blindriver: "you must own two homes and then buying a third makes you an investor" me: "no, that would mean people who own one home to live in and one home to rent out are not investors. Owning one and investing in a second makes you an investor." You: "you are sarcastically and obtusely arguing that being an investor requires owning 3+ homes!" No, I'm not arguing that. > "thereby classifying the people who are simply swapping homes like you stated as "investors"" Nobody was talking about people who own two homes while moving houses. But if we were then the choice is (people who own a second house to rent are not classed as investors just in case they get confused with people moving house) which is wrong permanently and silly, vs (people who own two homes while selling their old home are classed as investors for a while) which is wrong temporarily but not too unreasonable, then I will pick the latter.
throwup238 1y ago
They don’t provide any concrete evidence for how they classify “mom and pop” (to be fair i haven't had the time to read the original paper). It’s standard operating procedure to split investment properties between many subsidiaries to limit the financial splash damage. It’s mostly a legal fiction because the property managers are directors of multiple corporations managing dozens of properties, but the courts haven't cracked down on it yet. I’m suspicious of whatever statistics they use to classify investors. (I’m speaking only of the investors that buy to rent extract, I have no insight into the flippers)
- tcbawo 1y ago
  LLCs need to declare the beneficial owner(s), which is supposed to give transparency and KYC to corporate structures like that.
  - rubyn00bie 1y ago
    Not when they’re funneled through states like Wyoming and Nevada which an enormous amount of them are… both have very good privacy laws protecting the owners identity. Often times there will be a local LLC which is owned by (at least one) separate out of state LLC in Nevada or Wyoming obfuscating who the true owners are. There’s a whole industry behind this.
    - paulryanrogers 1y ago
      Sounds like a federal law is needed to pierce these exploitive veils.
      - giantg2 1y ago
        It's actually not, because it's a non-issue. The privacy of a Wyoming LLC doesn't mean protection. Your name isn't on any of the public records documents, but a court order can still force the disclosure of the interested parties.
        1y ago
paulryanrogers 1y ago
Who needs more than two? You can only live in one at a time. Why let the rentier class grow any larger than they already are? It's not like there is an oversupply of desirable housing. And even if there were an oversupply, the answer isn't to incentivize the rich to get richer.
- solace_silence 1y ago
  Won't someone please think of the Capital!?!
MangoToupe 1y ago
I'm sorry I have zero sympathy for anyone who owns three homes. Fuck em
- axus 1y ago
  Divorced people with 2 homes each that remarried and ended up with 4 homes? I've seen it happen. Finally they sold 2 of those homes..
- xarope 1y ago
  I feel there's a major distinct difference between; - a well off family who buys a 2nd home to make sure their kids are set - a group of well off investors who pool funds, buys a 2nd home, with intention to "flip" it in the next 1-2 years and make 10% Both are "investors", but I'd like to think the 1st are trying to build a better future, whereas the 2nd are just arbitraging.
  - MangoToupe 1y ago
    Intent doesn't matter; you can justify about any horrible behavior imaginable by saying you're looking after your family. I resent the commodification of housing and the destabilizing effects it has across society. Where's the upside?
- morngn 1y ago
  In my area owning a trailer park home requires being in like the top 1% internationally. Owning 1 home in Oakland may be worse than owning 4 in Detroit, in terms of being an under-hated under-taxed elite.
intrasight 1y ago
That was my mom and pop in the 80s they bought about one house a year. Empty derelict houses purchased from the city for between $1000 and $15,000. The city provided matching grants to fix them up. Also the city paid the rent for the Cambodian and Vietnamese migrants that came here to live. My parents invested the organization and literal sweat equity to fix up these homes.
minraws 1y ago
Why is the cut off at five more than 2 homes per person shouldn't be allowed. And 1 or 2 extra farm lands... Like what are you going to do with your 5th home???
lanfeust6 1y ago
Yes and we are ignoring the rental component. Discouraging ownership > low vacancy > skyrocketing rent prices.

blindriver 1y ago

1 home qualifies you as an invrestor? So I’m an investor? That definition is whacked it should be at least 2 homes.

sorcerer-mar 1y ago
1 and 5 non-primary residence.
jodrellblank 1y ago
“I own no homes, and am buying a home” “I own one home, and am buying a house” “That makes you an investor” “No that’s whack. When I buy a third - buying while owning two - then I will be an investor” You have an off-by-one error.
- selimthegrim 1y ago
  I own no homes, and must scream.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - phil21 1y ago
    These stats are tracking folks who buy a second property intended as an investment - typically renting it out but not always. You’re not a mom and pop landlord if you’re just buying a second home to move into with intent to sell your current one.
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      >You’re not a mom and pop landlord if you’re just buying a second home to move into with intent to sell your current one. That's my point. The person I'm replying to is being obtuse and sarcastically arguing that the investor criteria requires owning 3+ as an attempt to use absurdity to force people to admit that 2+ makes you an "investor" thereby classifying the people who are simply swapping homes like you stated as "investors".
      - jodrellblank 1y ago
        blindriver: "you must own two homes and then buying a third makes you an investor" me: "no, that would mean people who own one home to live in and one home to rent out are not investors. Owning one and investing in a second makes you an investor." You: "you are sarcastically and obtusely arguing that being an investor requires owning 3+ homes!" No, I'm not arguing that. > "thereby classifying the people who are simply swapping homes like you stated as "investors"" Nobody was talking about people who own two homes while moving houses. But if we were then the choice is (people who own a second house to rent are not classed as investors just in case they get confused with people moving house) which is wrong permanently and silly, vs (people who own two homes while selling their old home are classed as investors for a while) which is wrong temporarily but not too unreasonable, then I will pick the latter.

throwup238 1y ago

They don’t provide any concrete evidence for how they classify “mom and pop” (to be fair i haven't had the time to read the original paper). It’s standard operating procedure to split investment properties between many subsidiaries to limit the financial splash damage. It’s mostly a legal fiction because the property managers are directors of multiple corporations managing dozens of properties, but the courts haven't cracked down on it yet. I’m suspicious of whatever statistics they use to classify investors. (I’m speaking only of the investors that buy to rent extract, I have no insight into the flippers)

tcbawo 1y ago
LLCs need to declare the beneficial owner(s), which is supposed to give transparency and KYC to corporate structures like that.
- rubyn00bie 1y ago
  Not when they’re funneled through states like Wyoming and Nevada which an enormous amount of them are… both have very good privacy laws protecting the owners identity. Often times there will be a local LLC which is owned by (at least one) separate out of state LLC in Nevada or Wyoming obfuscating who the true owners are. There’s a whole industry behind this.
  - paulryanrogers 1y ago
    Sounds like a federal law is needed to pierce these exploitive veils.
    - giantg2 1y ago
      It's actually not, because it's a non-issue. The privacy of a Wyoming LLC doesn't mean protection. Your name isn't on any of the public records documents, but a court order can still force the disclosure of the interested parties.
      - 1y ago

paulryanrogers 1y ago

Who needs more than two? You can only live in one at a time. Why let the rentier class grow any larger than they already are? It's not like there is an oversupply of desirable housing. And even if there were an oversupply, the answer isn't to incentivize the rich to get richer.

solace_silence 1y ago
Won't someone please think of the Capital!?!

MangoToupe 1y ago

I'm sorry I have zero sympathy for anyone who owns three homes. Fuck em

axus 1y ago
Divorced people with 2 homes each that remarried and ended up with 4 homes? I've seen it happen. Finally they sold 2 of those homes..
xarope 1y ago
I feel there's a major distinct difference between; - a well off family who buys a 2nd home to make sure their kids are set - a group of well off investors who pool funds, buys a 2nd home, with intention to "flip" it in the next 1-2 years and make 10% Both are "investors", but I'd like to think the 1st are trying to build a better future, whereas the 2nd are just arbitraging.
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  Intent doesn't matter; you can justify about any horrible behavior imaginable by saying you're looking after your family. I resent the commodification of housing and the destabilizing effects it has across society. Where's the upside?
morngn 1y ago
In my area owning a trailer park home requires being in like the top 1% internationally. Owning 1 home in Oakland may be worse than owning 4 in Detroit, in terms of being an under-hated under-taxed elite.

intrasight 1y ago

That was my mom and pop in the 80s they bought about one house a year. Empty derelict houses purchased from the city for between $1000 and $15,000. The city provided matching grants to fix them up. Also the city paid the rent for the Cambodian and Vietnamese migrants that came here to live. My parents invested the organization and literal sweat equity to fix up these homes.

minraws 1y ago

Why is the cut off at five more than 2 homes per person shouldn't be allowed. And 1 or 2 extra farm lands... Like what are you going to do with your 5th home???

lanfeust6 1y ago

Yes and we are ignoring the rental component. Discouraging ownership > low vacancy > skyrocketing rent prices.