4 ms·
I don't think GLP-1s are particularly expensive, so my top preference would be to just see them easily available. While not quite the same, it's a win that Roga
by Jach 1y ago
I don't think GLP-1s are particularly expensive, so my top preference would be to just see them easily available. While not quite the same, it's a win that Rogaine/Minoxidil were once prescription-only but for a long time now can be bought at any grocery store and taken to the self-checkout. Still, I think the subsidy approach has been done for smoking problems via nicotine products before, and e.g. nicotine gum cost never seemed that high to me (especially compared to cigarettes).
But it's also worth remembering the relative risks involved. Obesity isn't quite the ticking time bomb / public menace it's often made out to be... For smoking, you'll find studies with relative risk numbers for lung cancer over 5 for casual 1-4 times a day smokers, and the number quickly exceeds 20 for heavier smokers. In contrast, with obesity, the most severe relative risks for things like heart disease or diabetes you'll find topping out around 4 to 5 for the most obese, even then often under 3, with milder 1.1 to 2 for the bulk of obese people. (Here, ~31% of the US has BMIs between 30-40, and ~9% have BMIs over 40.) For other harms, like there was a study on dementia a few years back, you'll also find pretty mild (1.1ish) relative risks, but these end up being similar with other factors like "stress", "economic status", or "low educational attainment". Just some thought for people thinking about subsidizing or providing free stuff, the cost tradeoff with paying for other things later might not work out so neatly, and there's reason to not focus solely on obesity but also do the same sort of analysis with other factors and severity of a factor as well.
- Aurornis 1y ago> I don't think GLP-1s are particularly expensive On-patent GLP-1s (all of them right now) are actually extremely expensive. Right around $1000 per month. I don’t want to discourage anyone who needs them from seeking treatment, but their discontinuation rate can be somewhat higher than you’d think from a life-changing drug because many people don’t like certain effects or even encounter side effects. Weight loss drugs are also a challenging category for OTC because they’re a target of abuse. People with eating disorders and body dysmorphia already seek out black market GLP-1s at a high rate and it would be a difficult situation if they could pick them up impulsively from the medicine aisle. It’s also common for people to misuse OTC medications by taking very high doses hoping for faster results, which has to be considered. There’s a libertarian-minded angle where people say “Who cares, that’s their own problem. Medications should be free for everyone to take.” I was persuaded by those arguments when I was younger, but now I have a very different perspective after hearing about the common and strange world of OTC medicine abuse from my friends in the medical field. Just ask your doctor friends if they think Tylenol should still be OTC if you want to hear some very sad stories.
- fnord77 1y agoI pay about $40/month for mine, grey market from china
- sizzle 1y agoHow do you mix the powder for injection?
- toraway 1y agoThe typical grey market buyer exclusively buys vacuum or inert gas sealed sterile vials that contain pre-measured lyophilized powder and then uses BAC water from medical supply stores (or just Amazon) for reconstitution transferring from one vial to the other with a fresh needle.
- diet_jerome 1y agoHow do you find a grey market source?
- bananapub 1y ago> On-patent GLP-1s (all of them right now) are actually extremely expensive. Right around $1000 per month. what does that mean? in the UK it's for sale from numerous national-chain pharmacies on a private prescription (ie the pharmacy is selling it commercially and customers are paying cash, no insurance and no state subsidy) for less than $US270/month. it seems unlikely to me that the pharmacies or the manufacturers are taking a loss on this, and the UK has at least as strict drug quality standards as the US. sounds like the US monopoly-holders are just charging a lot more because they can, because the insurance system obfuscates prices and gives everyone involved cover to rip off patients?
- terminalshort 1y agoPeople who want to misuse the medication are going to be the ones most willing and able to jump through the bureaucratic hoops. Increasing the difficulty to get the medication will only make it more difficult for legitimate users and won't decrease abuse. In 1920, 1970, and now, heroin was legal, illegal with minimal enforcement, and illegal with harsh enforcement (except in SF), and the same percentage of the population was addicted at each time. Doctors' jobs are to deal with the cases that go wrong. These anecdotes have no relevance without actual data on how often these problems occur.
- paulpauper 1y agoyeah this is true. When people say that obesity is worse than smoking, I'm like "Have you looked at the actual stats on this?"
- eru 1y agoSmoking is pretty good for pension systems.