5 ms·

How has living in the same country as a crop of successful tech startups made the lives of an average American noticeably better?

slowmovintarget 1y ago
That's a non-sequitur. Achieving Euro-Big-Tech for social media and AI would not improve European's lives either, except for the few oligarchs that would run the equivalent corporate giants there. I can't help hearing Bender's voice after getting kicked out of the Casino...
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> How has living in the same country as a crop of successful tech startups made the lives of an average American noticeably better? Average American is materially wealthier than the average European, with more influence over the latter than the latter has over the former. Go above the bottom 20% or so, and you have vastly higher living standards in most of America compared with most of Europe. This is obscured by our terrible treatment of the bottom 10%, as well as by the burdens we put on our middle class. But the American middle class is wealthier and, I’d argue, more powerful than most European countries’, the exceptions being in the West and the North of the continent.
- anthk 1y ago
  In your fantasy world, maybe. The truth is that even the loaded people die earlier and live up worse than the average Southern/Western European.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > even the loaded people die earlier and live up worse than the average Southern/Western European You repeated this misinformation in another thread.
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      Even the richest Americans face shorter lifespans than their European counterparts, study finds - https://www.brown.edu/news/2025-04-02/wealth-mortality-gap https://www.brown.edu/news/2025-04-02/wealth-mortality-gap - April 2nd, 2025 Association between Wealth and Mortality in the United States and Europe - https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa2408259 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa2408259 | https://doi.org/10.1056/NEJMsa2408259 https://doi.org/10.1056/NEJMsa2408259
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44554214 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44554214 The study is fascinating on its own without needing to be lied about.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  60 percent of Americans can’t afford a basic quality of life. I disagree with the way this is argued. Materially wealthier how? Home equity? Household net worth? Absolutely of no value based on the currently observed outcomes. If you ignore the wealth metrics, Europeans live objectively better lives than a majority of Americans. https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/24/robert-kennedy-gdp https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/24/robert...
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > 60 percent of Americans can’t afford a basic quality of life Define that “basic quality of life” and map it to the EU. We define our baselines much higher in America than they do in Europe because of course we do, we’re richer per capita. Quality of life for the bottom I think 50% of Americans is worse than in Europe, almost entirely due to food quality and healthcare. But for most Americans, it’s materially better for most values worth measuring. (For the richest Americans it’s way better, but that isn’t how I believe one measures a society.) Keep in mind that I’m counting the whole EU. If we restrict ourselves to its richest members, sure, QOL is higher in Switzerland and Norway than in Mississippi.
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      Unburdened by housing costs, affordable and accessible healthcare, transportation, child care, groceries, etc. It is possible to live comfortably in most of Europe for €1000-€1500/month. This is almost impossible for most of the US, more so as upcoming Medicaid cuts occur. https://www.kff.org/quick-take/about-17-million-more-people-could-be-uninsured-due-to-the-big-beautiful-bill-and-other-policy-changes/ https://www.kff.org/quick-take/about-17-million-more-people-...
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Unburdened by housing costs, affordable and accessible healthcare, transportation, child care, groceries, etc. Few European social welfare systems unburden their populations of all of these. Those that do are comparable to America’s wealthiest states. > It is possible to live comfortably in most of Europe for €1000-€1500/month. This is almost impossible for most of the US It’s also a lot easier to earn more than that wage in America [1][2]. (And you can absolutely live an okay life in NYC if you got your subsidies right on a job that pays ~$20k/y.) [1] https://kagi.com/images?q=average+monthly+wage+eu+member+map#PreviewImageModal https://kagi.com/images?q=average+monthly+wage+eu+member+map... [2] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-median-income-by-state-in-2024/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-median-income-by-sta...
- tzs 1y ago
  How much of that is attributable to tech startups with global reach founded in the US in the last 30 years?
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  Counterpoints: Even upper-middle-class women are more likely to die giving birth in the US than in (almost any part of) Europe. Middle-class families can be financially ruined by chronic or terminal illnesses within the family. Below-average income families in the US have heavy financial hurdles trying to get their kids into college. Religious homeschooling is currently preparing a generation of undereducated American children. GDP isn't quality of life.
ews 1y ago
I am making way more than 10x of what I was making in Europe, for exactly the same role. Cost of living is definitely not 10x.
- plantwallshoe 1y ago
  Tech workers make tech salaries are not living anything close to the modal American life.

slowmovintarget 1y ago

That's a non-sequitur. Achieving Euro-Big-Tech for social media and AI would not improve European's lives either, except for the few oligarchs that would run the equivalent corporate giants there. I can't help hearing Bender's voice after getting kicked out of the Casino...

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> How has living in the same country as a crop of successful tech startups made the lives of an average American noticeably better? Average American is materially wealthier than the average European, with more influence over the latter than the latter has over the former. Go above the bottom 20% or so, and you have vastly higher living standards in most of America compared with most of Europe. This is obscured by our terrible treatment of the bottom 10%, as well as by the burdens we put on our middle class. But the American middle class is wealthier and, I’d argue, more powerful than most European countries’, the exceptions being in the West and the North of the continent.

anthk 1y ago
In your fantasy world, maybe. The truth is that even the loaded people die earlier and live up worse than the average Southern/Western European.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > even the loaded people die earlier and live up worse than the average Southern/Western European You repeated this misinformation in another thread.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    Even the richest Americans face shorter lifespans than their European counterparts, study finds - https://www.brown.edu/news/2025-04-02/wealth-mortality-gap https://www.brown.edu/news/2025-04-02/wealth-mortality-gap - April 2nd, 2025 Association between Wealth and Mortality in the United States and Europe - https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa2408259 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa2408259 | https://doi.org/10.1056/NEJMsa2408259 https://doi.org/10.1056/NEJMsa2408259
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44554214 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44554214 The study is fascinating on its own without needing to be lied about.
toomuchtodo 1y ago
60 percent of Americans can’t afford a basic quality of life. I disagree with the way this is argued. Materially wealthier how? Home equity? Household net worth? Absolutely of no value based on the currently observed outcomes. If you ignore the wealth metrics, Europeans live objectively better lives than a majority of Americans. https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/24/robert-kennedy-gdp https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/24/robert...
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > 60 percent of Americans can’t afford a basic quality of life Define that “basic quality of life” and map it to the EU. We define our baselines much higher in America than they do in Europe because of course we do, we’re richer per capita. Quality of life for the bottom I think 50% of Americans is worse than in Europe, almost entirely due to food quality and healthcare. But for most Americans, it’s materially better for most values worth measuring. (For the richest Americans it’s way better, but that isn’t how I believe one measures a society.) Keep in mind that I’m counting the whole EU. If we restrict ourselves to its richest members, sure, QOL is higher in Switzerland and Norway than in Mississippi.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    Unburdened by housing costs, affordable and accessible healthcare, transportation, child care, groceries, etc. It is possible to live comfortably in most of Europe for €1000-€1500/month. This is almost impossible for most of the US, more so as upcoming Medicaid cuts occur. https://www.kff.org/quick-take/about-17-million-more-people-could-be-uninsured-due-to-the-big-beautiful-bill-and-other-policy-changes/ https://www.kff.org/quick-take/about-17-million-more-people-...
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > Unburdened by housing costs, affordable and accessible healthcare, transportation, child care, groceries, etc. Few European social welfare systems unburden their populations of all of these. Those that do are comparable to America’s wealthiest states. > It is possible to live comfortably in most of Europe for €1000-€1500/month. This is almost impossible for most of the US It’s also a lot easier to earn more than that wage in America [1][2]. (And you can absolutely live an okay life in NYC if you got your subsidies right on a job that pays ~$20k/y.) [1] https://kagi.com/images?q=average+monthly+wage+eu+member+map#PreviewImageModal https://kagi.com/images?q=average+monthly+wage+eu+member+map... [2] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-median-income-by-state-in-2024/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-median-income-by-sta...
tzs 1y ago
How much of that is attributable to tech startups with global reach founded in the US in the last 30 years?
IAmBroom 1y ago
Counterpoints: Even upper-middle-class women are more likely to die giving birth in the US than in (almost any part of) Europe. Middle-class families can be financially ruined by chronic or terminal illnesses within the family. Below-average income families in the US have heavy financial hurdles trying to get their kids into college. Religious homeschooling is currently preparing a generation of undereducated American children. GDP isn't quality of life.

ews 1y ago

I am making way more than 10x of what I was making in Europe, for exactly the same role. Cost of living is definitely not 10x.

plantwallshoe 1y ago
Tech workers make tech salaries are not living anything close to the modal American life.