8 ms·

Bannig things as a default solution to everything is what got Europe in trouble in the first place. Zero-sum, back-to-the-trees mentality.

spacebeer 1y ago
It worked for China, when they banned or restricted what Google, MS, Apple, Facebook can do there
- ronsor 1y ago
  China did it early and made growing their domestic industry a priority. Europe has not. This is like trying to close the gate after the horse has already escaped.
  - spacebeer 1y ago
    So not just EU, but any other region in the world, like Africa, South America, Central Asia should just give up and not try to make a business that could disrupt existing giants?
    - togetheragainor 1y ago
      They should try fostering more competence and competitiveness, rather than trying to regulate themselves to success.
      - ClumsyPilot 1y ago
        Most US industries are owned by 1/2/3 oligopolies. The only way to compete is to create your own monopolies.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - michaelscott 1y ago
      They can, but OP's point is that a ban on US tech on its own will do nothing to produce a local Silicon Valley. It needs to go hand in hand with a massive push toward local entrepreneurial support, especially in places like Europe where the government exercises more control through legislation
      - ryandrake 1y ago
        I don’t think you really need to incentivize businesses. If people want to start a business, they’re going to start one, regardless of whatever carrot you throw in front of them. “I’d love to start a business and make a profit, but the government just isn’t giving me enough incentive!” - said nobody ever.
        queenkjuul 1y ago
        And "every government software contract owned by a US company is about to be up for grabs" isn't an incentive on its own?
  - tremon 1y ago
    Europe is regularly growing new tech startups, even online tech. The main problem is US vulture capital swooping in and buying it up as soon as it outgrows the local market, followed by everyone pretending it was developed in the US.
- moomin 1y ago
  And clearly some people believe it will work for America, given the TikTok ban.
  - rrr_oh_man 1y ago
    A ban that is not being enforced or complied with is not a ban.
- remir 1y ago
  It worked for China because they were in position of power. The US wasn't established in China and they needed Chinese users to grow their global user base and influence. Meanwhile, China had the wealth and power to say no and instead fund and develop their own homegrown tech equivalents. Europe doesn't have that same level of power. If tomorrow morning you banned Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon, Salesforce in Europe, you'd destroy their economy. What Europe needs to do is create the conditions for tech companies to emerge that could truly compete against US big tech. As long as European will prefer working for US corporation, there's no chance for Europe to compete. Simple as that.
  - longfingers 1y ago
    I don't get your argument. Those companies provide overpriced crap to go along with domain specific code that is either open source or written by a more specialized company. If companies suddenly had to make intelligent choices and people would get fired for buying IBM, a bunch if companies would show up with better integrations than these since worse just isn't possible. If a rush to get anything non-US were the priority the market of converting Chinese solutions would already deliver better solutions.. US tech (of this office sort) looks a lot like US steel plants a couple decades after other nations built replacements, that's why it is comical that Europe is not only using it but often using the very worst of it.
moomin 1y ago
I never understand this idea that Europe is somehow in a bad place compared to America. Go ask people, it’s really not.
- ews 1y ago
  I am originally from Europe and I must ask : how many startups of global reach has Europe produced in the last 30 years compared to the US as a whole (or even just the SF Bay Area). What is Europe doing in AI compared to the US or China?
  - plantwallshoe 1y ago
    How has living in the same country as a crop of successful tech startups made the lives of an average American noticeably better?
    - slowmovintarget 1y ago
      That's a non-sequitur. Achieving Euro-Big-Tech for social media and AI would not improve European's lives either, except for the few oligarchs that would run the equivalent corporate giants there. I can't help hearing Bender's voice after getting kicked out of the Casino...
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > How has living in the same country as a crop of successful tech startups made the lives of an average American noticeably better? Average American is materially wealthier than the average European, with more influence over the latter than the latter has over the former. Go above the bottom 20% or so, and you have vastly higher living standards in most of America compared with most of Europe. This is obscured by our terrible treatment of the bottom 10%, as well as by the burdens we put on our middle class. But the American middle class is wealthier and, I’d argue, more powerful than most European countries’, the exceptions being in the West and the North of the continent.
      - 1y ago
apwell23 1y ago
why do they not twist themselves into frenzy like they do in usa if someone proposes protectionist policies. Trump is like europe lite
ClumsyPilot 1y ago
The greatest lie in the world is that US Gov. wants free market. It has spent the last 10 years lobbying EU to ban Huawei, Chinese electric cars, Tiktok, etc.. It has banned foreign ships from travelling between US ports, a deal by Japan's Nippon Steel, imposed 300% tax on Bombardier, and imprisoned French executives until they agreed to sell a division of Alstom to GE. This is why I support Trump as a European - at least he is upfront about the racket he is running. If the pretence cannot be maintained, our politicians will be forced to respond.
- Klonoar 1y ago
  You do know you can acknowledge the supposed effect Trump would have on the EU without supporting him, right?
surgical_fire 1y ago
Citation needed? What exactly did EU ban that got them in trouble? I personall think it is a great idea to ban US big tech from EU, especially now that the US is essentially an enemy foreign nation.

spacebeer 1y ago

It worked for China, when they banned or restricted what Google, MS, Apple, Facebook can do there

ronsor 1y ago
China did it early and made growing their domestic industry a priority. Europe has not. This is like trying to close the gate after the horse has already escaped.
- spacebeer 1y ago
  So not just EU, but any other region in the world, like Africa, South America, Central Asia should just give up and not try to make a business that could disrupt existing giants?
  - togetheragainor 1y ago
    They should try fostering more competence and competitiveness, rather than trying to regulate themselves to success.
    - ClumsyPilot 1y ago
      Most US industries are owned by 1/2/3 oligopolies. The only way to compete is to create your own monopolies.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
  - michaelscott 1y ago
    They can, but OP's point is that a ban on US tech on its own will do nothing to produce a local Silicon Valley. It needs to go hand in hand with a massive push toward local entrepreneurial support, especially in places like Europe where the government exercises more control through legislation
    - ryandrake 1y ago
      I don’t think you really need to incentivize businesses. If people want to start a business, they’re going to start one, regardless of whatever carrot you throw in front of them. “I’d love to start a business and make a profit, but the government just isn’t giving me enough incentive!” - said nobody ever.
      - queenkjuul 1y ago
        And "every government software contract owned by a US company is about to be up for grabs" isn't an incentive on its own?
- tremon 1y ago
  Europe is regularly growing new tech startups, even online tech. The main problem is US vulture capital swooping in and buying it up as soon as it outgrows the local market, followed by everyone pretending it was developed in the US.
moomin 1y ago
And clearly some people believe it will work for America, given the TikTok ban.
- rrr_oh_man 1y ago
  A ban that is not being enforced or complied with is not a ban.
remir 1y ago
It worked for China because they were in position of power. The US wasn't established in China and they needed Chinese users to grow their global user base and influence. Meanwhile, China had the wealth and power to say no and instead fund and develop their own homegrown tech equivalents. Europe doesn't have that same level of power. If tomorrow morning you banned Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon, Salesforce in Europe, you'd destroy their economy. What Europe needs to do is create the conditions for tech companies to emerge that could truly compete against US big tech. As long as European will prefer working for US corporation, there's no chance for Europe to compete. Simple as that.
- longfingers 1y ago
  I don't get your argument. Those companies provide overpriced crap to go along with domain specific code that is either open source or written by a more specialized company. If companies suddenly had to make intelligent choices and people would get fired for buying IBM, a bunch if companies would show up with better integrations than these since worse just isn't possible. If a rush to get anything non-US were the priority the market of converting Chinese solutions would already deliver better solutions.. US tech (of this office sort) looks a lot like US steel plants a couple decades after other nations built replacements, that's why it is comical that Europe is not only using it but often using the very worst of it.

moomin 1y ago

I never understand this idea that Europe is somehow in a bad place compared to America. Go ask people, it’s really not.

ews 1y ago
I am originally from Europe and I must ask : how many startups of global reach has Europe produced in the last 30 years compared to the US as a whole (or even just the SF Bay Area). What is Europe doing in AI compared to the US or China?
- plantwallshoe 1y ago
  How has living in the same country as a crop of successful tech startups made the lives of an average American noticeably better?
  - slowmovintarget 1y ago
    That's a non-sequitur. Achieving Euro-Big-Tech for social media and AI would not improve European's lives either, except for the few oligarchs that would run the equivalent corporate giants there. I can't help hearing Bender's voice after getting kicked out of the Casino...
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > How has living in the same country as a crop of successful tech startups made the lives of an average American noticeably better? Average American is materially wealthier than the average European, with more influence over the latter than the latter has over the former. Go above the bottom 20% or so, and you have vastly higher living standards in most of America compared with most of Europe. This is obscured by our terrible treatment of the bottom 10%, as well as by the burdens we put on our middle class. But the American middle class is wealthier and, I’d argue, more powerful than most European countries’, the exceptions being in the West and the North of the continent.
    - 1y ago

apwell23 1y ago

why do they not twist themselves into frenzy like they do in usa if someone proposes protectionist policies. Trump is like europe lite

ClumsyPilot 1y ago

The greatest lie in the world is that US Gov. wants free market. It has spent the last 10 years lobbying EU to ban Huawei, Chinese electric cars, Tiktok, etc.. It has banned foreign ships from travelling between US ports, a deal by Japan's Nippon Steel, imposed 300% tax on Bombardier, and imprisoned French executives until they agreed to sell a division of Alstom to GE. This is why I support Trump as a European - at least he is upfront about the racket he is running. If the pretence cannot be maintained, our politicians will be forced to respond.

Klonoar 1y ago
You do know you can acknowledge the supposed effect Trump would have on the EU without supporting him, right?

surgical_fire 1y ago

Citation needed? What exactly did EU ban that got them in trouble? I personall think it is a great idea to ban US big tech from EU, especially now that the US is essentially an enemy foreign nation.