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I was on Mounjaro for two months. I was also dieting and walking 10k steps a day. I lost 25 lb and my A1C went down to 5.0 from 5.7. All my cholesterol numbers
by firesteelrain 1y ago
I was on Mounjaro for two months. I was also dieting and walking 10k steps a day. I lost 25 lb and my A1C went down to 5.0 from 5.7. All my cholesterol numbers were in range. I stopped taking it and lost 25 more. I haven’t regained the weight. People who gain it back did not learn the lesson and did not effectively change their habits. You need the discipline - and a good support system. But if you don’t have that and continue old habits then you will gain weight back. The original problem isn’t solved.
- Sparkle-san 1y ago[flagged]
- 44520297 1y agoWhy is obesity the only disease that taking medicine for is “cheating”? Which is more important: instilling your particular version of “discipline” into people, or saving billions in healthcare costs and millions of lives from suffering?
- throwawaybob420 1y ago[flagged]
- 44520297 1y agoTaking medicine is a lifestyle choice.
- throwawaybob420 1y ago[flagged]
- Group_B 1y agoIt’s usually a self inflicted disease. Your own actions cause it most of the time
- 44520297 1y agoWhich other self-inflicted medical conditions do we deny medical care for?
- animal_spirits 1y agoWe prescribe alcoholics with medicine to help them curb their alcohol intake, but if they do not learn the discipline to not drink then they can end up back where they started after getting off the medicine. But I don't think either drugs for alcoholism or obesity should be denied to anyone. However there are other tools to supplement with to help learning discipline.
- 44520297 1y ago>However there are other tools to supplement with to help learning discipline. The current FDA guidelines support your assertion that GLP1s should be prescribed in addition to other tools to help people change their eating habits. What the FDA does not prescribe is moralism, which is what “help learning discipline” tends to imply. If you didn’t intend to frame your argument in terms of moralism, you might consider a different word choice.
- animal_spirits 1y agoNot sure how else to word it. "help people change their habits" vs. discipline to change their habits - what's charged about the word 'discipline'?
- 44520297 1y agoIn English, we “instill discipline” in children. When we talk to and about adults, we talk about the confluence of factors that influence habits and help people change them. Discipline implies that an adult, who is otherwise fully functioning and subject to the demands of the world, is lacking an essential attribute. Whatever you might feel about this explanation, we already observe from science and medicine that “instilling discipline” on its own has not stalled the obesity epidemic.
- bryant 1y agoPeople grew up making fun of others for being overweight. Suddenly a medication making it treatable (and possibly providing an explanation for why the prevalence of obesity skyrockets in developed countries) validates the idea that it's a medical condition. Relatedly: it validates that people are assholes for making fun of others who are overweight. And not many people like feeling like an asshole. Edit: starlevel004 is right.
- Starlevel004 1y agoCorrection: Lots of people like feeling like an asshole. They don't like being called out for it or being wrong.
- Sparkle-san 1y agoCheat code was probably not the best term for it, I'll admit. I don't fault anyone for chosing to try GLP-1s and the cause of obeseity isn't particularly on the individual given the prevailance of ultra processed foods and car transportation in our society. That all being said, regaining most, if not all, the weight has been a historical issue around weight loss treatments because they're not durable. The way we're proceeding with GLP-1s feels short-sighted and potentially unethical if we're setting people up for rebound failure to line the pockets of big pharma.
- 44520297 1y agoWould you say the same about blood pressure medications, diabetes medications, cholesterol medications, thyroid hormone replacement, antidepressants, mood stabilizers, antipsychotics, anti-anxiety medications, immunosuppressants, DMARDs, corticosteroids, anticonvulsants, Parkinson’s medications, multiple sclerosis treatments, blood thinners, and heart failure medications? All of them set people up for rebound failure if they stop taking them for the chronic condition they started them for.
- Sparkle-san 1y agoI wouldn't group those together at all for the sake the argument. Take antidepressants for example. We're at the point of reexamining if we actually understand the consequences of long term usage of them. My personal experience was that my long term usage definitely came with issues and it's taken me a few years to feel like my emotional range has returned to a stabe baseline after going off them. I likely would have been better off using them short term. Depressiom is also quite similar to obesity in the sense that helping people develop the durable non-medical interventions while being treated with drugs would go further than just treating them with drugs alone. Contrast this with Parkinson's which is a neurodegenerative disease with no known non-pharmacutical treatments and even the pharmacutical ones lose effectiveness as it progresses as they only treat symptoms, not the disease itself.
- 44520297 1y ago> go further than just treating them with drugs alone This is precisely what the FDA guidance contains: that GLP1s be mixed with lifestyle modifications.
- kbelder 1y agoIt's not. I'd put most addictions in that category. And instilling discipline in people is a good thing that benefits them in myriad ways.
- 44520297 1y agoYou are free to put addictions in whichever category you prefer. The medical community does not: we treat addiction with medication as well.
- jchw 1y agoA lesson often learned painfully: in most cases there isn't a reward for doing things the hard way. You could argue that a magic weight loss drug will prevent people from making important lifestyle changes, but all else equal, a magic drug that helps you lose weight with seemingly no other downsides is an obvious net win for health. Losing weight once you put pounds on is hard, for both mental and physical reasons, and even just being able to lose weight is probably a huge help as it puts in reach what many consider to be intangible after years of failure. I haven't tried a GLP-1 agonist myself because I'm not exactly severely overweight, but I do absolutely struggle to keep weight off. It's amazing how easy it is to re-gain weight and how hard it is to keep it off. If the worst side-effect of GLP-1 agonists is that it makes life insurance quotes harder, whatever; I think it's totally acceptable that some people will still struggle with improving their habits, I don't think it's likely to make it any worse. In my opinion I suspect it is likely to make it a bit better, by helping you break out of the cycle. P.S.: since there is some neighboring discourse about whether being fat is a disease or a lifestyle choice, I'll just say this: I don't personally think it matters. I don't think arguing this distinction will actually help anyone. I don't really care for body positivity and I don't make excuses for my poor habits or being overweight, but I still don't think it makes losing weight much easier.
- saturneria 1y agoYou could apply this same stupid logic to many medications. Blood pressure medication comes to mind.
- padjo 1y agoPeople have to believe in free will or they go crazy. Admitting that we’re just a bag of hormones and electric signals means our whole system of morality is built on sand and that’s a scary door to open.
- weregiraffe 1y agoPeople have to believe in free will, they have no choice (because there is no free will). I didn't want to write this comment, but had no choice either.
- mikhailt 1y agoThat's a great idea! Can you show me what we're doing in USA to help children and people develop the habits and discipline for long term lifestyle change? Because I've never learned anything about nutrition, macros, high sugar content and all of the healthy food I should learn to eat on my own. We did not have home classes in any of my education in US at all, they were a thing in the past but that wasn't a thing in my middle hs or hs or college at all in NY in 90s/2000s. All of my bad habits were from my parents and they were not good eaters.
- firesteelrain 1y agoYep, that’s key. That’s the lesson I learned as I commented above as GP. My work offered me five visits with a dietician and then I got a health coach and a nurse all paid for and monitoring me on the side through the Vida service. Not everyone has that
- intermerda 1y agoMichelle Obama started a campaign to reduce childhood obesity and the right collectively lost their mind.
- DrillShopper 1y agoI'd be okay with that so long as nobody can have Nicorette, the birth control pill, or Viagra. I don't have a problem refraining from smoking, I've never gotten pregnant, and my dick works, so it must be some innate discipline in me that others must learn, so no meds for them. See how ridiculous that sounds?
- pfdietz 1y agoGiving people the magic antibiotic cheat code seems antithetical to helping them develop habits and discipline to avoid bacterial infection.
- arp242 1y agoDepends on your circumstances. If you're a bit overweight and want to lose weight: it's perhaps not helpful. If you're obese and everything just seems hopeless: fuck it – do anything that will bring your weight down to a manageable level first, and then start working on habit and lifestyle changes. Energy levels, the motivation of seeing progress, and that type of thing are hugely important.
- nicman23 1y agoyeah lets stop giving antidepressants as well
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- petesergeant 1y ago> People who gain it back did not learn the lesson and did not effectively change their habits. You need the discipline This is deeply misguided. I’m glad that the little assist was enough for you, but if “healthy habits” were enough then people who’d lost weight the traditional way would keep it off. Further, unless you’ve been off it for more than six months, I’d hold your judgement on this one.
- firesteelrain 1y agoI have been off since Oct 2024. Also, I did continue to lose weight the traditional way. After I stopped, a coworker told me about Vida which my work offers as a health benefit. Using the Vida service where I got a registered dietician to show me what to eat, I tracked my food and water intake and tracked my exercise. I had protein and fiber goals to hit. You can’t do it all on the medicine - it is a lifestyle change. The medicine was the catalyst but not the reason I kept the weight off. I wanted it. But because I wanted it, I wanted to use the support system that my work paid for. I think there is a lesson to be learned here
- mschuster91 1y ago> but if “healthy habits” were enough then people who’d lost weight the traditional way would keep it off. That's because a lot of the "traditional way" methods are pseudoscience at best, outright quackery that's going to send you into serious malnutrition issues or eating disorders at worst. Every two or three months you see a new diet fad pushed through the yellow press rags, and none of it anywhere near being considered scientifically valid - usually it's some VIP shilling some crap story to explain how they lost weight, of course without telling the people that they have the time for training and the money to pay for proper food, 1:1 training and bloodwork analysis.
- _9ptr 1y agoI would have thought the "traditional way" would simply be eat less, move more (by changing your habits of course).
- 1y ago
- furyofantares 1y agoHow long ago was this?
- firesteelrain 1y agoI started in Aug 2024 and stopped in Oct 2024. I paid for it from one of the pharmacies that made it in Florida. I injected myself with insulin needles that they send you.
- consp 1y agoDepends on your ultimate high's. That's a pretty good indication of diabetes (any form). I've had pretty good hb1ac's when my blood sugar's were all over the place and in no way healthy.
- furyofantares 1y agoI've seen so many reports of people losing weight one way or another, and saying they kept it off, and I think only once has it been more than a year. Usually under 6 months. Personally I lost a ton of weight doing full-on keto (I specify, because some people just kinda cut out carbs) and then kept it off for over 2 years. But I put the weight back on after that, albeit slowly (over the course of maybe 7 years). I've also done Mounjaro, and I can keep it off a while after I go off it, but not that long. YES, you have to change your habits, maybe lifestyle, maybe deal with other issues in order to keep it off. But I think, not only is that difficult, it's not a "you did it and you're done" deal. It's easy to slip backwards, and I won't make any claims about you personally, but for anyone who's kept it off for less than a year, I think the good money would be on it coming back within another year. I doubt someone is "out of the woods" even two years on.
- firesteelrain 1y agoI don’t see myself gaining 50 lb back. I would have to eat a TON which I don’t
- 1y ago
- apwell23 1y agosuprised your a1c was only 5.7 despite being obese .
- firesteelrain 1y agoFrom what I understand you don’t have to be obese and have type 2 diabetes. In my case, I was obese and did not have diabetes but I might have been going down that road
- busterarm 1y agoA lot of skinny people with a family history of diabetes find that they can become diabetic/pre-diabetic as they age. The trick to avoid it is to put on muscle mass, which regulates your blood glucose levels.
- firesteelrain 1y agoThank you. I will keep monitoring my A1C and lifting weights
- busterarm 1y agoI recomped 30lbs of fat to lean mass and had a 2 point drop in A1C. Real shit. Get after it!
- nerevarthelame 1y agoThis is akin to saying a severely anxious person should be able to take an SSRI for a few months, learn how to change their thinking, and stay off antidepressants for the rest of their life. So simple. Must be their fault if they can't pull it off. Perhaps that works for some people. I'm glad it seems to have worked for you. But the facts of the world we live in show that it doesn't work for most. "Learn the lesson and be disciplined!" is not effective advice.
- firesteelrain 1y agoThe analogy to your example is that someone who has to take Mounjaro for diabetes will always have to take it even after losing say 100 pounds. Or Metaformin even. GLP-1 in those cases helps manage the problem better. But for those who are not in those cases where Type 2 Diabetes has sunk in, then they need to use the opportunity to get better while on it and kick themselves into high gear or they will have learned nothing from the experience
- treyd 1y agoThat is the ideal model for treatment of those types of mental health disorders. Often patients have blockers that prevent them from resolving underlying issues. But through a drug they can get into a headspace that allows them to work through them with talk therapy, and then learn new habits and eventually go off the drug. In practice, this doesn't happen that often, no, but it's a theoretical goal. Probably because we're in the pre-GLP-1 era with regard to mental health meds. Maybe that will change.
- make3 1y agoI feel like your example shows the inverse of what you want. SSRI are actually great at helping the person develop healthy mechanisms (compared to GLP-1s), because they reduce the mood swings & negative thoughts, allowing the person to be more productive & be more involved in their therapy, in reading, journaling, doing sports, etc. It's just that it might take two or three years and not months, which is fine because SSRI also have much more limited side effects compared to GLP-1s. GLP-1s don't do that directly.. but at least they might help people move more, and give them confidence to do more for their health instead of seeing it as a lost cause.
- jstummbillig 1y ago> People who gain it back did not learn the lesson Considering it took you a miracle drug to learn the lesson, that seems like a humorously arrogant take.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- arp242 1y agoI lost almost 15 kg (~33 lbs) over the last two months and I didn't even try that hard. I never had problems with my weight, but over the last few years it slowly crept up to ~107kg (at ~1.95cm), at which point I realised I had to do something. Reasonably sure I could do a The Machinist Christian Bale if I wanted to. I also quit smoking with relatively little effort twice (once in my early 20s, and then again a few years ago after I picked up smoking again during COVID). It wasn't easy-easy, but if I hear the struggles some other people go through, it was relatively easy. Some people are just wired different. I have plenty of other issues, but on this sort of thing, for whatever reason I seem to be lucky.
- MisterSandman 1y agoSomeone who had to take a drug to learn how to control their weight should not be lecturing others on how to do it.
- firesteelrain 1y agoPosting what I posted below: I have been off since Oct 2024. Also, I did continue to lose weight the traditional way. After I stopped, a coworker told me about Vida which my work offers as a health benefit. Using the Vida service where I got a registered dietician to show me what to eat, I tracked my food and water intake and tracked my exercise. I had protein and fiber goals to hit. You can’t do it all on the medicine - it is a lifestyle change. The medicine was the catalyst but not the reason I kept the weight off. I wanted it. But because I wanted it, I wanted to use the support system that my work paid for. I think there is a lesson to be learned here