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> I keep seeing this line as if people think CEOs shouldn't exist or aren't worth their compensation. That is incredibly incorrect thinking. Good CEOs and bad C

> I keep seeing this line as if people think CEOs shouldn't exist or aren't worth their compensation. That is incredibly incorrect thinking. Good CEOs and bad CEOs are two different creatures and lead companies to very different places. If the “bad” CEOs don’t take pay cuts or subsequently struggle to find work, then that thinking is obviously not as “incredibly” incorrect as you claim.

ToucanLoucan 1y ago
Real talk: what are the issues with Mozilla's? I hate plenty of CEOs so I'm familiar but I've never heard... really anything, good or bad, about Mozilla's.
- alternatex 1y ago
  Raking in 100s of millions and not improving Firefox is one thing. Another is spending those millions on acquiring companies that produce no revenue, aka setting money on fire. Zen Browser has been producing the features people have been asking for from Firefox with $0. I can't imagine what motivated devs like those could produce with just 1% of the money Mozilla burns. It's not that they haven't done great things for the web. It's just that we expect more from their most popular product considering the money that they're rolling in.
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    It's not 100s of millions. The previous CEO made between 2.4 to 7 million (she was really good at giving herself raises) and wasn't there long enough for that to add up to even one hundred million. Still she was very overpaid with the marketshare ever declining and the new one gets even more. Nobody else got that kind of raise at Mozilla and they probably were much better at their jobs. But hundreds of millions it was not.
    - akho 1y ago
      I think the GP comment is talking about Mozilla Corp under her leadership, not her personally. She also didn’t buy other companies for herself.
- stefan_ 1y ago
  This is desktop market share, their "stronghold": https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1j07hrt/heres_how_firefoxs_desktop_market_share_has/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1j07hrt/heres_how_... That alone is enough to disqualify all of them. Now look at mobile - the biggest market ever. Firefox does not exist on mobile. That is a reason to remove the leadership and the board with it.
  - ToucanLoucan 1y ago
    So I see the logic, but at the same time, I'm wondering why it's important for Firefox to gain a lot of users on... any platform, really? Like it's broadly good for more people to use Firefox, but also, is that Mozilla's actual mission? Because I would personally say that Mozilla is not out to make "the most popular browser," they're out to make "the best browser." Ideally the best would be the most popular but there's a lot in the way of that that doesn't necessarily mean anything negative about Mozilla or Firefox.
    - homebrewer 1y ago
      You can have the best browser in the world, and it's not gonna help you if nobody tests for it because its market share is approximately 0%. We're already seeing people getting stuck in endless captchas because they're using a weird browser that behaves differently to 95% of other users, and shitty websites inadvertently relying on bugs in Chromium which results in stuff not working, or running slow as molasses, in FF. I've been running into both pretty much daily. As a long time Firefox users (since 2.0 almost exclusively), it didn't used to be like that, it's a recent phenomenon. Much can also be said about them removing features and not implementing things people keep asking for for decades; for example, the vertical tab feature request was there for more then 20 years, I think? It's not a criticism of developers, they're doing what they can, it's obvious set by managers.
    - wkat4242 1y ago
      Those things go hand in hand though. If they truly were the best people would line up to use it. I still use it because it's the least bad option. They have a long history of ignoring the community in favour of the mainstream, ironically a user group they have lost a long time ago. So now they're just alienating their remaining supporters in order to cater to users that don't even remember they exist.

ToucanLoucan 1y ago

Real talk: what are the issues with Mozilla's? I hate plenty of CEOs so I'm familiar but I've never heard... really anything, good or bad, about Mozilla's.

alternatex 1y ago
Raking in 100s of millions and not improving Firefox is one thing. Another is spending those millions on acquiring companies that produce no revenue, aka setting money on fire. Zen Browser has been producing the features people have been asking for from Firefox with $0. I can't imagine what motivated devs like those could produce with just 1% of the money Mozilla burns. It's not that they haven't done great things for the web. It's just that we expect more from their most popular product considering the money that they're rolling in.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  It's not 100s of millions. The previous CEO made between 2.4 to 7 million (she was really good at giving herself raises) and wasn't there long enough for that to add up to even one hundred million. Still she was very overpaid with the marketshare ever declining and the new one gets even more. Nobody else got that kind of raise at Mozilla and they probably were much better at their jobs. But hundreds of millions it was not.
  - akho 1y ago
    I think the GP comment is talking about Mozilla Corp under her leadership, not her personally. She also didn’t buy other companies for herself.
stefan_ 1y ago
This is desktop market share, their "stronghold": https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1j07hrt/heres_how_firefoxs_desktop_market_share_has/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1j07hrt/heres_how_... That alone is enough to disqualify all of them. Now look at mobile - the biggest market ever. Firefox does not exist on mobile. That is a reason to remove the leadership and the board with it.
- ToucanLoucan 1y ago
  So I see the logic, but at the same time, I'm wondering why it's important for Firefox to gain a lot of users on... any platform, really? Like it's broadly good for more people to use Firefox, but also, is that Mozilla's actual mission? Because I would personally say that Mozilla is not out to make "the most popular browser," they're out to make "the best browser." Ideally the best would be the most popular but there's a lot in the way of that that doesn't necessarily mean anything negative about Mozilla or Firefox.
  - homebrewer 1y ago
    You can have the best browser in the world, and it's not gonna help you if nobody tests for it because its market share is approximately 0%. We're already seeing people getting stuck in endless captchas because they're using a weird browser that behaves differently to 95% of other users, and shitty websites inadvertently relying on bugs in Chromium which results in stuff not working, or running slow as molasses, in FF. I've been running into both pretty much daily. As a long time Firefox users (since 2.0 almost exclusively), it didn't used to be like that, it's a recent phenomenon. Much can also be said about them removing features and not implementing things people keep asking for for decades; for example, the vertical tab feature request was there for more then 20 years, I think? It's not a criticism of developers, they're doing what they can, it's obvious set by managers.
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    Those things go hand in hand though. If they truly were the best people would line up to use it. I still use it because it's the least bad option. They have a long history of ignoring the community in favour of the mainstream, ironically a user group they have lost a long time ago. So now they're just alienating their remaining supporters in order to cater to users that don't even remember they exist.