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Drones are massively key in a very unusual conflict between Russia and Ukraine. I wonder if other wars would find them useful. For example, a recent article sh

Drones are massively key in a very unusual conflict between Russia and Ukraine. I wonder if other wars would find them useful. For example, a recent article shared on HN highlighted that the cheap drones become useless once there is any signal jamming going on. Russia can't jam too aggressively as their own comms are not good enough to be useful in such an environment. But what about NATO? Would they just jam the EM spectrum to oblivion and render all these drones useless? Not a great point of comparison, but Israel v Gaza seems to use next to no drones (certainly not the small cheap variety), and the little that is known of Israel v Iran also focused on big expensive manned and unmanned aircraft. Plus massive, enormous, eye-wateringly-expensive bombs. Not converted Mavic drones. To the extent that Iran used drones, reportedly they gave no tactical benefit, as they were all shot down long before they reached Israel.

mnky9800n 1y ago
Many drones use fiber optic cables to control them. Autonomous drones would solve this problem as well.
- rich_sasha 1y ago
  Fibre optical drones have their own challenges. Can't easily loiter or backtrack due to issues with snagging, and their range is more limited. Autonomous drones, likewise, have their own issues. Mostly they can't be equally dirt cheap, as they need to have all the electronics that make regular weaponry expensive.
  - ExoticPearTree 1y ago
    I think we are 1-3 years away from a capable autonomous drone with some AI capabilities built-in that can take matters into its own hands.
breve 1y ago
> Russia can't jam too aggressively as their own comms are not good enough to be useful in such an environment. Russia makes use of fibre optic cable with some drones: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2024/03/08/russian-fiber-optic-drone-can-beat-any-jammer/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2024/03/08/russia... Ukraine has developed countermeasures: https://www.twz.com/news-features/ukraine-discloses-new-method-to-defeat-russian-fiber-optic-controlled-fpv-drones https://www.twz.com/news-features/ukraine-discloses-new-meth...
- giardini 1y ago
  So the "cable" consists of at least 2 components: a steel cable for strength and a communications fiber cable? BTW is all this bio-degradable? What about clean-up after a war?
  - Mawr 1y ago
    The primary concern during a war is of course making sure the lethal weapons produced are organic, vegan, and biodegradable. Assuming Ukraine survives, they will have decades of work ahead of them cleaning up all the mines and other live munitions buried across half the country. A bunch of strands of metal and fiber won't make any difference.
logtempo 1y ago
Because low cost drones have been used since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, they are trained to use them. Also the quantity used is way higher than in other conflicts, lowering the price is more important. There is also a need in adaptability. Delivering parts that meets a specific demand at a specific time is where 3D printing and diy drones shine and it's important in Ukraine frontline. There is also a system in the way Ukraine is doing war that favorise diy drone. Basically, each units have a budget and you get more if your unit kill Russian soldiers/equipment. This in return give you access to more advanced drones. I think today the drones are quite well equipped and the diy versions are less present.
kranke155 1y ago
This is silly. The future of warfare is clearly robots. The fact that Israel has an effective counter drone system that costs them billions to maintain doesn’t mean that drones are somehow ineffective.
arp242 1y ago
> To the extent that Iran used drones, reportedly they gave no tactical benefit, as they were all shot down long before they reached Israel. Israel is geographically a very small country with a rather unique situation, and has spent eye-watering amounts of money on its arms industry with significant help of the US and Europe. In addition, their defence was very good but not fool-proof. I'm not sure how many landed off-hand, but there was some serious damage. Other defences will likely be less effective. I'm not so sure an effective missile/drone defence would work for most other countries: too much area to protect, too expensive for the advantage it gives. Protecting key cities/locations could perhaps be effective, but entire countries? Probably not.
- rich_sasha 1y ago
  Reportedly (and I appreciate this is bordering speculation) the things that landed were actually not cheap drones but ballistic missiles.

mnky9800n 1y ago

Many drones use fiber optic cables to control them. Autonomous drones would solve this problem as well.

rich_sasha 1y ago
Fibre optical drones have their own challenges. Can't easily loiter or backtrack due to issues with snagging, and their range is more limited. Autonomous drones, likewise, have their own issues. Mostly they can't be equally dirt cheap, as they need to have all the electronics that make regular weaponry expensive.
- ExoticPearTree 1y ago
  I think we are 1-3 years away from a capable autonomous drone with some AI capabilities built-in that can take matters into its own hands.

breve 1y ago

> Russia can't jam too aggressively as their own comms are not good enough to be useful in such an environment. Russia makes use of fibre optic cable with some drones: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2024/03/08/russian-fiber-optic-drone-can-beat-any-jammer/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2024/03/08/russia... Ukraine has developed countermeasures: https://www.twz.com/news-features/ukraine-discloses-new-method-to-defeat-russian-fiber-optic-controlled-fpv-drones https://www.twz.com/news-features/ukraine-discloses-new-meth...

giardini 1y ago
So the "cable" consists of at least 2 components: a steel cable for strength and a communications fiber cable? BTW is all this bio-degradable? What about clean-up after a war?
- Mawr 1y ago
  The primary concern during a war is of course making sure the lethal weapons produced are organic, vegan, and biodegradable. Assuming Ukraine survives, they will have decades of work ahead of them cleaning up all the mines and other live munitions buried across half the country. A bunch of strands of metal and fiber won't make any difference.

logtempo 1y ago

Because low cost drones have been used since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, they are trained to use them. Also the quantity used is way higher than in other conflicts, lowering the price is more important. There is also a need in adaptability. Delivering parts that meets a specific demand at a specific time is where 3D printing and diy drones shine and it's important in Ukraine frontline. There is also a system in the way Ukraine is doing war that favorise diy drone. Basically, each units have a budget and you get more if your unit kill Russian soldiers/equipment. This in return give you access to more advanced drones. I think today the drones are quite well equipped and the diy versions are less present.

kranke155 1y ago

This is silly. The future of warfare is clearly robots. The fact that Israel has an effective counter drone system that costs them billions to maintain doesn’t mean that drones are somehow ineffective.

arp242 1y ago

> To the extent that Iran used drones, reportedly they gave no tactical benefit, as they were all shot down long before they reached Israel. Israel is geographically a very small country with a rather unique situation, and has spent eye-watering amounts of money on its arms industry with significant help of the US and Europe. In addition, their defence was very good but not fool-proof. I'm not sure how many landed off-hand, but there was some serious damage. Other defences will likely be less effective. I'm not so sure an effective missile/drone defence would work for most other countries: too much area to protect, too expensive for the advantage it gives. Protecting key cities/locations could perhaps be effective, but entire countries? Probably not.

rich_sasha 1y ago
Reportedly (and I appreciate this is bordering speculation) the things that landed were actually not cheap drones but ballistic missiles.