2 ms·

> It's not a CLI It is not about the invocation, search and filter bar differ in the same way as find and grep. Even if they are similar, they are still diffe

> It's not a CLI It is not about the invocation, search and filter bar differ in the same way as find and grep. Even if they are similar, they are still different enough to not benefit from unifying. >> I don't care ... I mean that as: I don't object to a different placement of the global search bar. > My problem is what that search textbox is a clear import from the MS Outlook I don't know the history and which program's search box predates the other. Note, that the search bar predates the current UI change, see below. > not wasting the space for nothing in the window titlebar As I have written earlier, I also don't like UI in the titlebar. But neither do I like yet another omnibar. I think I should start again with describing how I perceive the functionality: There is a global (across accounts, folders) search UI, which is a whole different "window"/tab, with different kinds of logical search parameters. The result view is displayed paged, with time, account and folder graphs, but can be converted to a standard message list view. This can be used when you have no clue and just focus completely on searching random content. The global search bar is just a "button" to open this UI and prefill the search box. Suppose you have an already existent curated working set of messages. Then you want to select a few and operate on them. This is what the filter bar is for. You don't need to change your focus to a different UI element, it is just a way to pre-select your working set or temporarily restrict your view to focus on just some messages. Note, how a lot of functionality is in adjusting the UI to support the state of mind of the user. Enhancing the filter to work across folders is maybe a feature, I don't have a use for that yet. It doesn't makes sense with the current placement, because that indicates, that it is in the current folder frame. I wouldn't implement it like you, I would probably add a checkbox, but that's an implementation detail. But then getting rid of the search bar/functionality is just that, removing functionality. The alternative way seams to be to merge the filter into the search bar, but that either amounts to the same or means adding a filter to the search to limit it to a specific folder, but this already exists. > You sounds like I'm advocating to removal of both the search and the filter boxes. That's because trying to merge them and removing the other, results in getting rid of one of two useful UI-flows. Currently it is also possible to first search and then use the filter on that. This also won't be possible when you merge them. > Did you provided support to anyone by the phone? Not yet for TB, but I give you that this might result in confusion. I don't think dumbing down the UI to solely improve tech support over the phone seams worthwhile. > ctrl+shift+f - searching the mailbox. That's yet another thing entirely. This invokes a server-side search as opposed to the two client side functionalities we are discussing now. I uploaded a screenshot of how TB (115) currently looks for me: https://ibb.co/FbsKYF1H https://ibb.co/FbsKYF1H Interestingly the height is less then any of your mockups. Maybe that is, because I don't have any scaling factor. My display is 1366x768, that results in a maximized window size of 1365x707. So this amounts to 32.5%, yes that is quite some space. I think in practice I tend to just mentally fade out anything above the menubar. As I got curious, I reinstalled version 102. I remember feeling disappointed about the upgrade, because there was suddenly a lot of useless whitespace, but I didn't remember anything concrete. Here is how it looks: https://ibb.co/n8P2CjB4 https://ibb.co/n8P2CjB4 That only occupies 25.5%, which seams better. I am surprised how you can now select more then one item in listviews for example in the folder pane and the subscription window. This is a huge deal, because selecting hundreds of folders individually to subscribe to them is just really annoying. I think I definitely like this UI more and don't know why there was this huge UI regression. It also seams to startup faster. Note, that in both images I have the tab bar, which seams to be missing in all your mockups. How are the numbers on your computer, as it seams even worse then on mine? Do you still have the same objections to the old UI? > this is just another illogical placement what doesn't add functionality, yet wastes the space. Do you have a proposal for placement without merging/removing functionality?

justsomehnguy 1y ago
> It is not about the invocation, search and filter bar differ in the same way as find and grep. Even if they are similar, they are still different enough to not benefit from unifying. Well, as I said - it's very easy to do so in this case by clearly separating the way it works and presents the data. It's not the ideal solution nor it would work for everyone (case number one: you) but it would still be better than the current mess. > I don't know the history and which program's search box predates the other. Note, that the search bar predates the current UI change, see below. Outlook in 2020/2021, TB in 2022/2023 [0] > The alternative way seams to be to merge the filter into the search bar And moving the search bar somewhere sensical. Yes, this is the way I imagine what would work for the most, including me. Filter by default, search if <Enter> (just like today with the search bar!) OR no results from filter with a clear identification it's the search now, not the filter results. > Currently it is also possible to first search and then use the filter on that. This also won't be possible when you merge them. But the search results are already on the separate tab! You can't search and filter on the same tab, or at least I never discovered how to do so, because the second I press <Enter> in the search the separate tab with the results open. Nobody forbids to still show the filter bar/box there, it's a separate UI-flow anyway. > I don't think dumbing down the UI to solely improve tech support over the phone seams worthwhile. It's not about phone tech support of course, it's about how a regular folks interact with the UI. And in my opinion the current design isn't good for regular Joe. > Maybe that is, because I don't have any scaling factor 4k with 1.5x, so numbers are off. Anyway, it's about comparison, not the actual px count. This is on my notebook (1920x1200, non-scaled) main screen: https://ibb.co/qYCmwD7b https://ibb.co/qYCmwD7b ~245px tall, which still makes it 20%. Another trouble is what with all these scaling shenanigans everything people write me is... gigantic to say at least, so I forced to have the reading pane much taller for the same amount of the content I needed ten years ago, so a 5-7 lines of text. It's not TB's problem per se (and scaling in the reading pane works) but it's still something I didn't need to bother 10 years ago and having something eat my vertical screen estate makes me fume! > My display is 1366x768 > So this amounts to 32.5%, Yikes! And yes, literally 30% of the screen is not displaying anything useful (besides contents of the filter bar). Also it's quite evident what TB developers not only do not use such screens and resolutions but don't care about it at all. Because any sensical (third time here!) person would ask "why the fuck I'm looking at my mail through a tank gun port?!". > Note, that in both images I have the tab bar, which seams to be missing in all your mockups. Was confused at first but then it occurred to me. Yes, if I have any searches or open messages than goes another ~50px, up to 300px: https://ibb.co/WWFt3mnd https://ibb.co/WWFt3mnd > Do you still have the same objections to the old UI? Go to 115 release [1] and notice how they show 102 with the tabs and 115 without. Totally honest guys. There are things in 102 UI which I don't like too, but at least there were no stupid mega-ultra-uber-search bar on the top. > Do you have a proposal for placement without merging/removing functionality? Uhm. As I said earlier - for the search you are moved to a separate search tab after hitting <Enter>. There is no need to have the search bar everywhere in the app in the first place. But okay, remove the bar, leave the fucking magnifying glass icon, exactly like the 90% of stupid sites do. Bonus points: remove the 'search' button so the user is forced to press <Enter> key to actually perform the search. Just like the other 90% of stupid sites do. Web 3.0! Web 3.0 is everywhere! [0] It's PITA to search for, but TB 91 (August 11, 2021) didn't yet had the search bar, TB 102 (June 29, 2022) had it a bit more sensically but not yet a fully separate bar; and TB 115 (July 11, 2023) finally did it the current way. [1] While Outlook had it at least on May 31, 2020 [2] [1] https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/115.0/whatsnew/ https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/115.0/whatsnew... [2] https://blog.rcsprofessional.com/changes-to-the-microsoft-outlook-search-bar-yay-or-nay https://blog.rcsprofessional.com/changes-to-the-microsoft-ou... NB: >> Hi there was just a release where they deleted the entire task bar with useful buttons and replaced it with a search bar (ie the same thing microsoft did adding that giant search bar on top of word and excel that nobody asked for or wanted). Not exactly sure why, since there is also another search bar just below it. >> Mar 25 2023 https://old.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/1214smv/how_to_undo_massive_search_bar_change/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/1214smv/how_to... Heh.

justsomehnguy 1y ago

> It is not about the invocation, search and filter bar differ in the same way as find and grep. Even if they are similar, they are still different enough to not benefit from unifying. Well, as I said - it's very easy to do so in this case by clearly separating the way it works and presents the data. It's not the ideal solution nor it would work for everyone (case number one: you) but it would still be better than the current mess. > I don't know the history and which program's search box predates the other. Note, that the search bar predates the current UI change, see below. Outlook in 2020/2021, TB in 2022/2023 [0] > The alternative way seams to be to merge the filter into the search bar And moving the search bar somewhere sensical. Yes, this is the way I imagine what would work for the most, including me. Filter by default, search if <Enter> (just like today with the search bar!) OR no results from filter with a clear identification it's the search now, not the filter results. > Currently it is also possible to first search and then use the filter on that. This also won't be possible when you merge them. But the search results are already on the separate tab! You can't search and filter on the same tab, or at least I never discovered how to do so, because the second I press <Enter> in the search the separate tab with the results open. Nobody forbids to still show the filter bar/box there, it's a separate UI-flow anyway. > I don't think dumbing down the UI to solely improve tech support over the phone seams worthwhile. It's not about phone tech support of course, it's about how a regular folks interact with the UI. And in my opinion the current design isn't good for regular Joe. > Maybe that is, because I don't have any scaling factor 4k with 1.5x, so numbers are off. Anyway, it's about comparison, not the actual px count. This is on my notebook (1920x1200, non-scaled) main screen: https://ibb.co/qYCmwD7b https://ibb.co/qYCmwD7b ~245px tall, which still makes it 20%. Another trouble is what with all these scaling shenanigans everything people write me is... gigantic to say at least, so I forced to have the reading pane much taller for the same amount of the content I needed ten years ago, so a 5-7 lines of text. It's not TB's problem per se (and scaling in the reading pane works) but it's still something I didn't need to bother 10 years ago and having something eat my vertical screen estate makes me fume! > My display is 1366x768 > So this amounts to 32.5%, Yikes! And yes, literally 30% of the screen is not displaying anything useful (besides contents of the filter bar). Also it's quite evident what TB developers not only do not use such screens and resolutions but don't care about it at all. Because any sensical (third time here!) person would ask "why the fuck I'm looking at my mail through a tank gun port?!". > Note, that in both images I have the tab bar, which seams to be missing in all your mockups. Was confused at first but then it occurred to me. Yes, if I have any searches or open messages than goes another ~50px, up to 300px: https://ibb.co/WWFt3mnd https://ibb.co/WWFt3mnd > Do you still have the same objections to the old UI? Go to 115 release [1] and notice how they show 102 with the tabs and 115 without. Totally honest guys. There are things in 102 UI which I don't like too, but at least there were no stupid mega-ultra-uber-search bar on the top. > Do you have a proposal for placement without merging/removing functionality? Uhm. As I said earlier - for the search you are moved to a separate search tab after hitting <Enter>. There is no need to have the search bar everywhere in the app in the first place. But okay, remove the bar, leave the fucking magnifying glass icon, exactly like the 90% of stupid sites do. Bonus points: remove the 'search' button so the user is forced to press <Enter> key to actually perform the search. Just like the other 90% of stupid sites do. Web 3.0! Web 3.0 is everywhere! [0] It's PITA to search for, but TB 91 (August 11, 2021) didn't yet had the search bar, TB 102 (June 29, 2022) had it a bit more sensically but not yet a fully separate bar; and TB 115 (July 11, 2023) finally did it the current way. [1] While Outlook had it at least on May 31, 2020 [2] [1] https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/115.0/whatsnew/ https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/115.0/whatsnew... [2] https://blog.rcsprofessional.com/changes-to-the-microsoft-outlook-search-bar-yay-or-nay https://blog.rcsprofessional.com/changes-to-the-microsoft-ou... NB: >> Hi there was just a release where they deleted the entire task bar with useful buttons and replaced it with a search bar (ie the same thing microsoft did adding that giant search bar on top of word and excel that nobody asked for or wanted). Not exactly sure why, since there is also another search bar just below it. >> Mar 25 2023 https://old.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/1214smv/how_to_undo_massive_search_bar_change/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/1214smv/how_to... Heh.