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Isn't the Linux ecosystem much more healthy and decentralized than Mozilla? We're so so blessed with Linus and everyone is afraid of the moment the project has

by WHA8m 1y ago

Isn't the Linux ecosystem much more healthy and decentralized than Mozilla? We're so so blessed with Linus and everyone is afraid of the moment the project has to stand without him. But I'm confident he's aware and working towards that point in time. I'm not too much into it though, so this is more or less assumptions.

Gentil 1y ago
Linux is a trademark of Linus. Which is why Linux Foundation which is run by corporates like Microsoft, Google etc is staying aside. After Linus, it would like corporate board memebers changing CEOs at their wish.
- ensignavenger 1y ago
  The Linux Foundation also runs several other projects, none of which do I see being ran terribly poorly from a corporate meddling point. I can only hope that is a strong signal of things to come.
  - Gentil 1y ago
    Did I say anything is run poorly? Or good for that matter? The difference is intent. Run for community and run for corporate are both different. Currenlty Linus is the only thing standing in the way of LF pulling another Rust Foundation. Cos it's run by corporates as well. Time will tell.
    - ensignavenger 1y ago
      What do you mean by "pulling another Rust Foundation"?
      - Gentil 1y ago
        Rust foundation has not been very community friendly. That's cos corporates run it. There was a fork of the language called crab or something cos of this at one point. Take Linus out of the scenario, it's the same thing that's probable about Linux Foundation.
mycatisblack 1y ago
Has he ever hinted about successors?
- WHA8m 1y ago
  I did a quick search. Names were named by him here [1] in 2024 - but not as successors per se. More like candidates for important roles in the future. This [2] interview from 2020 touches the subject as well. I interpret it in a way that he tries to cultivate an environment where a good leader/successor/main-whatever emerges somewhat naturally. [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/990534/ https://lwn.net/Articles/990534/ [2] https://itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/torvalds-says-no-need-to-name-successor-as-that-will-happen-on-its-own.html https://itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/torvalds-say... (Prime example of my personal behavior which I really don't like: Put a half-baked assumption/hearsay on the internet. Get 2 replies. Start actually researching the topic only afterwards.)
arp242 1y ago
Same with e.g. PostgreSQL. But these are fundamentally different type of projects. Many businesses and products run on top of Linux and/or PostgreSQL. There is a very clear and obvious incentive to contribute, because that will help you run your business better. With user-oriented software such as a browser, this is a lot less clear-cut. Organisations like Slack, or Etsy, or Dropbox: sure, they've contributed resources to stuff they use like Linux, PosgreSQL, PHP, Python, etc. But what do they get out of contributing to Firefox? Not so obvious. I think this is one reason (among others) that Open Source has long been the norm in some fields oriented towards servers and programmers, and a lot less so in others.
- blackenedgem 1y ago
  With PostgreSQL my biggest concern is what happens when we no longer have Tom Lane, Petere, etc. Rather than the project dying I see the opposite happening; it gets feature crept by contributors adding in their own custom behaviour and it becoming too complex. There's always a large overhead of adding something new and it's always the experienced devs on the project that know where the right balance is.
  - arp242 1y ago
    No project or development style is perfect and they all come with their own set of upsides and downsides. PostgreSQL is no exception. Maybe the PostgreSQL 20 years from now will be a different type of project with different types of trade-offs. That doesn't mean it will be worse. I'm not so worried about this.
sealeck 1y ago
> Isn't the Linux ecosystem much more healthy and decentralized than Mozilla? Is it? IME Linux kernel development is a somewhat toxic place.
- kbelder 1y ago
  >IME Linux kernel development is a somewhat toxic place. I think that's why it's healthier. A bit like the human immune system.

by WHA8m 1y ago

Gentil 1y ago

Linux is a trademark of Linus. Which is why Linux Foundation which is run by corporates like Microsoft, Google etc is staying aside. After Linus, it would like corporate board memebers changing CEOs at their wish.

ensignavenger 1y ago
The Linux Foundation also runs several other projects, none of which do I see being ran terribly poorly from a corporate meddling point. I can only hope that is a strong signal of things to come.
- Gentil 1y ago
  Did I say anything is run poorly? Or good for that matter? The difference is intent. Run for community and run for corporate are both different. Currenlty Linus is the only thing standing in the way of LF pulling another Rust Foundation. Cos it's run by corporates as well. Time will tell.
  - ensignavenger 1y ago
    What do you mean by "pulling another Rust Foundation"?
    - Gentil 1y ago
      Rust foundation has not been very community friendly. That's cos corporates run it. There was a fork of the language called crab or something cos of this at one point. Take Linus out of the scenario, it's the same thing that's probable about Linux Foundation.

mycatisblack 1y ago

Has he ever hinted about successors?

WHA8m 1y ago
I did a quick search. Names were named by him here [1] in 2024 - but not as successors per se. More like candidates for important roles in the future. This [2] interview from 2020 touches the subject as well. I interpret it in a way that he tries to cultivate an environment where a good leader/successor/main-whatever emerges somewhat naturally. [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/990534/ https://lwn.net/Articles/990534/ [2] https://itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/torvalds-says-no-need-to-name-successor-as-that-will-happen-on-its-own.html https://itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/torvalds-say... (Prime example of my personal behavior which I really don't like: Put a half-baked assumption/hearsay on the internet. Get 2 replies. Start actually researching the topic only afterwards.)

arp242 1y ago

Same with e.g. PostgreSQL. But these are fundamentally different type of projects. Many businesses and products run on top of Linux and/or PostgreSQL. There is a very clear and obvious incentive to contribute, because that will help you run your business better. With user-oriented software such as a browser, this is a lot less clear-cut. Organisations like Slack, or Etsy, or Dropbox: sure, they've contributed resources to stuff they use like Linux, PosgreSQL, PHP, Python, etc. But what do they get out of contributing to Firefox? Not so obvious. I think this is one reason (among others) that Open Source has long been the norm in some fields oriented towards servers and programmers, and a lot less so in others.

blackenedgem 1y ago
With PostgreSQL my biggest concern is what happens when we no longer have Tom Lane, Petere, etc. Rather than the project dying I see the opposite happening; it gets feature crept by contributors adding in their own custom behaviour and it becoming too complex. There's always a large overhead of adding something new and it's always the experienced devs on the project that know where the right balance is.
- arp242 1y ago
  No project or development style is perfect and they all come with their own set of upsides and downsides. PostgreSQL is no exception. Maybe the PostgreSQL 20 years from now will be a different type of project with different types of trade-offs. That doesn't mean it will be worse. I'm not so worried about this.

sealeck 1y ago

> Isn't the Linux ecosystem much more healthy and decentralized than Mozilla? Is it? IME Linux kernel development is a somewhat toxic place.

kbelder 1y ago
>IME Linux kernel development is a somewhat toxic place. I think that's why it's healthier. A bit like the human immune system.