4 ms·

How do they know the causal link? Can it be that people who stay up late sleep less and this causes issues, and there being light is only a consequence of stayi

How do they know the causal link? Can it be that people who stay up late sleep less and this causes issues, and there being light is only a consequence of staying up late?

circularfoyers 1y ago
> These relationships were robust after adjusting for established risk factors for cardiovascular health, including physical activity, smoking, alcohol, diet, sleep duration, socioeconomic status, and polygenic risk. There's more details further in the article[1]. [1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.06.20.25329961v1.full-text https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.06.20.25329961v...
ltbarcly3 1y ago
It does not claim a causal link, just correlation.
- trollbridge 1y ago
  "Correlation is not causation!" is one of the sillier things that people say when a study comes out with meaningful, interesting data. If nobody ever finds correlations in the first place, then it won't be possible to figure out causation - and we certainly do want to eventually find more causation for things like heart attacks, don't we?
  - NoPicklez 1y ago
    I agree. I see it constantly when a study comes out all of these statistics students come out of the wood work and say "Correlation doesn't mean causation" without any other thought. The study clearly claims only a correlation and absolutely, correlations help focus attention to try and find causal links in the future.
  - ltbarcly3 1y ago
    I agree, correlation certainly hints at a relationship. However, I think you are just being triggered by past traumas, because nobody said that here.
jillesvangurp 1y ago
Correlation is not the same as causation. The research indicates a correlation. Assuming causation is a classical mistake with any research. In any case, light sensitivity and sleep patterns are well linked. If you live far away from the equator, you are dealing with pretty short nights half of the year. I lived in Helsinki for a while. That can really mess up your sleep though some people manage to adapt. There's a reason coffee is popular in places like I currently live in Berlin. I sleep about 2-3 hours less in the summer than in the winter. Somehow that works for me. But it's really annoying to be wide awake at 6 when you've set your alarm for 8. I'm literally typing this on my laptop early morning on a Sunday. But it's light very early this time of year. I've experimented with wearing sleep masks. They really work. But I find them slightly uncomfortable. What works better is just doing sane things like trying to live healthy. Less alcohol, more sport. Etc. Work stress can cause all sorts of issues with that.
- jajko 1y ago
  > I sleep about 2-3 hours less in the summer than in the winter. That's not OK, I don't know a single person affected so (live in cca same latitude as Berlin). Have you tried some radical solutions like good window blinds or similar sun blocking mechanisms? I don't mean some cheap crap that still lets strips of light through, I mean full block. Of course if then some chopper or ambulance wakes you up regardless it doesn't matter.
  - jillesvangurp 1y ago
    I know several people that complain about the exact same thing. You just naturally wake up a lot earlier when it's bright and sunny around 4-5am. Most of nature does the same thing. All the birds get crazy active early morning. The expression "up with the lark" comes from that notion. I have light blocking curtains and they do help a little. But my bedroom faces east and I get the full blast of the Sun in the morning. Somehow this is fine and does not affect my energy levels too much. These days I don't drink alcohol any more, which has done wonders for my sleep quality. Quitting alcohol works better than almost anything else you can do. Long summer nights of drinking beer in the park (which is one of the perks that Berlin has) are not that great for this. But still, I easily sleep to 9am in the winter and in the summer I usually am awake a lot earlier. I typically stay in bet for a bit.

How do they know the causal link? Can it be that people who stay up late sleep less and this causes issues, and there being light is only a consequence of staying up late?

circularfoyers 1y ago

> These relationships were robust after adjusting for established risk factors for cardiovascular health, including physical activity, smoking, alcohol, diet, sleep duration, socioeconomic status, and polygenic risk. There's more details further in the article[1]. [1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.06.20.25329961v1.full-text https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.06.20.25329961v...

ltbarcly3 1y ago

It does not claim a causal link, just correlation.

trollbridge 1y ago
"Correlation is not causation!" is one of the sillier things that people say when a study comes out with meaningful, interesting data. If nobody ever finds correlations in the first place, then it won't be possible to figure out causation - and we certainly do want to eventually find more causation for things like heart attacks, don't we?
- NoPicklez 1y ago
  I agree. I see it constantly when a study comes out all of these statistics students come out of the wood work and say "Correlation doesn't mean causation" without any other thought. The study clearly claims only a correlation and absolutely, correlations help focus attention to try and find causal links in the future.
- ltbarcly3 1y ago
  I agree, correlation certainly hints at a relationship. However, I think you are just being triggered by past traumas, because nobody said that here.

jillesvangurp 1y ago

Correlation is not the same as causation. The research indicates a correlation. Assuming causation is a classical mistake with any research. In any case, light sensitivity and sleep patterns are well linked. If you live far away from the equator, you are dealing with pretty short nights half of the year. I lived in Helsinki for a while. That can really mess up your sleep though some people manage to adapt. There's a reason coffee is popular in places like I currently live in Berlin. I sleep about 2-3 hours less in the summer than in the winter. Somehow that works for me. But it's really annoying to be wide awake at 6 when you've set your alarm for 8. I'm literally typing this on my laptop early morning on a Sunday. But it's light very early this time of year. I've experimented with wearing sleep masks. They really work. But I find them slightly uncomfortable. What works better is just doing sane things like trying to live healthy. Less alcohol, more sport. Etc. Work stress can cause all sorts of issues with that.

jajko 1y ago
> I sleep about 2-3 hours less in the summer than in the winter. That's not OK, I don't know a single person affected so (live in cca same latitude as Berlin). Have you tried some radical solutions like good window blinds or similar sun blocking mechanisms? I don't mean some cheap crap that still lets strips of light through, I mean full block. Of course if then some chopper or ambulance wakes you up regardless it doesn't matter.
- jillesvangurp 1y ago
  I know several people that complain about the exact same thing. You just naturally wake up a lot earlier when it's bright and sunny around 4-5am. Most of nature does the same thing. All the birds get crazy active early morning. The expression "up with the lark" comes from that notion. I have light blocking curtains and they do help a little. But my bedroom faces east and I get the full blast of the Sun in the morning. Somehow this is fine and does not affect my energy levels too much. These days I don't drink alcohol any more, which has done wonders for my sleep quality. Quitting alcohol works better than almost anything else you can do. Long summer nights of drinking beer in the park (which is one of the perks that Berlin has) are not that great for this. But still, I easily sleep to 9am in the winter and in the summer I usually am awake a lot earlier. I typically stay in bet for a bit.