5 ms·

I would love to see some research about low dose chlorine dioxide and it's effect on parasites like malaria. ClO2 is a strong oxidizer and in very low doses ca

I would love to see some research about low dose chlorine dioxide and it's effect on parasites like malaria. ClO2 is a strong oxidizer and in very low doses can kill pathogens without causing harm to the body; incidentally, ClO2 is used on our food while washing it. Note that by very low doses I mean one to two drops per 8oz of water. The ClO2 is cheap though and would cause some drug companies to lose a large amount of revenue if it were proven to be effective in killing a wide range of pathogens. I'd love it if there were more research in this area.

tokenadult 14y ago
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/bleaching-away-what-ails-you/ http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/bleaching-away...
- rdl 14y ago
  Kind of amazing that he found something worse than homeopathy.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    To be fair, is it really hard for "alternative medicines" to be worse than homeopathy? By definition homeopathic "remedies" do absolutely nothing, so being worse should be easy. ;)
    - eckyptang 14y ago
      Indeed. Cue suitable mocking and derision: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
    - rz2k 14y ago
      "Worse" could mean that the theory behind the mechanism of action for homeopathy is worse. However, in this case the worse is about it causing harm, and the extent of harm from homeopathy is pretty much limited to patients not seeking needed medical treatment.
    - lukeschlather 14y ago
      Scientifically speaking homeopathic remedies are placebos, and many studies have shown that placebos are remarkably effective treatments with minimal side effects.
      - philwelch 14y ago
        Placebo side effects can also occur.
- harrisreynolds 14y ago
  Typical FUD. Where is the research? Start with animals like you do with everything, and RESEARCH it. Don't just dismiss it with labels like bleach when you have no idea what kind of action it has. The action of ClO2 is different than that of Chlorine bleach; it oxidizes instead of chlorinates!! People need to understand some basic chemistry instead of regurgitating buzz words (like bleach); and we need real research, not just empty words.
  - sp332 14y ago
    Surprisingly enough that's mostly true. http://www.lenntech.com/library/clo2/chlorine-dioxide.htm http://www.lenntech.com/library/clo2/chlorine-dioxide.htm ClO2 is a bleach, but it's not what most people think of when they say "bleach". It's effective as a disinfectant even against spore-forming bacteria like anthrax. http://www.lenntech.com/library/clo2/chlorine-dioxide.htm http://www.lenntech.com/library/clo2/chlorine-dioxide.htm I appreciate that you're not advocating high doses, or cures for random things like autism.
    - harrisreynolds 14y ago
      Thanks for the links. It is interesting to read about the chemistry behind the various oxidizing agents and the selectivity of each.
    - tokenadult 14y ago
      The links you kindly shared are commercial links posted by a water treatment chemical company that has a commercial interest in promoting using ClO2 rather than other chemicals for water treatment. It may be that everything they say about ClO2 as a water treatment chemical checks out with what independent researchers say, but there is no support here for the idea that ClO2 is an effective internal medicine for malaria infection. AFTER EDIT: To reply to your kind reply below, I am aware of what reply layer we are in here. But the submitted article, after all, was about treatment of human patients who have already been infected by the malaria parasite. For a top-level comment then to come in under that article that has nothing to do with internal medicine use of the advocated chemical is, at least, a sign of careless reading, and possibly a sign of greater tendentiousness. (Other participants here have pointed out the several words and phrases in several of the comments to which I am replying that suggest that that subthread is not based on familiarity with medical research and the methods of medical research.)
- harrisreynolds 14y ago
  Did you happen to read the HN story from a couple days ago? http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/semmelweis http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/semmelweis It'd be interesting if in 100 years we were reading the same story about ClO2. Everyone thought the doctor suggesting that everyone wash their hands before delivering a baby was a "quack" when the evidence suggested otherwise. I am only saying I'd like to see objective research here. If the result is that ClO2 is not effective in any way or that it does more harm than good then that is fine; BUT, if the result was that it was effective in very low doses, we should accept that as well. Let hard science prevail... not the quacks or the quack police.
  - mikeash 14y ago
    The difference is that all you have to do to avoid the "quack" label today is produce evidence that your treatment works. If this crazy-ass bleach treatment actually works like they say it does, it shouldn't be hard to produce evidence to back it up. Until and unless they can produce such evidence, it's only right to criticize those promoting the treatment.
    - aggronn 14y ago
      To be fair, that's exactly what he's asking for.
      - Goronmon 14y ago
        And yet, the proponents for it's effectiveness have yet to provide any evidence that it's worth studying. People who have no reason to believe it will work don't have a lot of incentive to test whether it works. Then again, the people who benefit from it's popularity and don't care if it works don't have much of an incentive to test it either.
      - mikeash 14y ago
        The key was in my last sentence: "Until and unless they can produce such evidence, it's only right to criticize those promoting the treatment."
  - 14y ago
astrodust 14y ago
If you mix that with colloidal silver and ground up quartz crystals I bet you'd literally live forever. You could probably walk on water, too.
tptacek 14y ago
"We gotta give him just enough [industrial bleaching agent] that he don't get sick but he's on the edge of getting sick! So we've got to keep him just on the very edge and therefore it's pretty intense for cancer, he needs to take it 4/5 times a day, small amounts instead of a big batch." http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/15/miracle-mineral-solutions-mms-bleach http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/15/miracle-minera... (These guys also appear to be anti-vaxers).

tokenadult 14y ago

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/bleaching-away-what-ails-you/ http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/bleaching-away...

rdl 14y ago
Kind of amazing that he found something worse than homeopathy.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  To be fair, is it really hard for "alternative medicines" to be worse than homeopathy? By definition homeopathic "remedies" do absolutely nothing, so being worse should be easy. ;)
  - eckyptang 14y ago
    Indeed. Cue suitable mocking and derision: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
  - rz2k 14y ago
    "Worse" could mean that the theory behind the mechanism of action for homeopathy is worse. However, in this case the worse is about it causing harm, and the extent of harm from homeopathy is pretty much limited to patients not seeking needed medical treatment.
  - lukeschlather 14y ago
    Scientifically speaking homeopathic remedies are placebos, and many studies have shown that placebos are remarkably effective treatments with minimal side effects.
    - philwelch 14y ago
      Placebo side effects can also occur.
harrisreynolds 14y ago
Typical FUD. Where is the research? Start with animals like you do with everything, and RESEARCH it. Don't just dismiss it with labels like bleach when you have no idea what kind of action it has. The action of ClO2 is different than that of Chlorine bleach; it oxidizes instead of chlorinates!! People need to understand some basic chemistry instead of regurgitating buzz words (like bleach); and we need real research, not just empty words.
- sp332 14y ago
  Surprisingly enough that's mostly true. http://www.lenntech.com/library/clo2/chlorine-dioxide.htm http://www.lenntech.com/library/clo2/chlorine-dioxide.htm ClO2 is a bleach, but it's not what most people think of when they say "bleach". It's effective as a disinfectant even against spore-forming bacteria like anthrax. http://www.lenntech.com/library/clo2/chlorine-dioxide.htm http://www.lenntech.com/library/clo2/chlorine-dioxide.htm I appreciate that you're not advocating high doses, or cures for random things like autism.
  - harrisreynolds 14y ago
    Thanks for the links. It is interesting to read about the chemistry behind the various oxidizing agents and the selectivity of each.
  - tokenadult 14y ago
    The links you kindly shared are commercial links posted by a water treatment chemical company that has a commercial interest in promoting using ClO2 rather than other chemicals for water treatment. It may be that everything they say about ClO2 as a water treatment chemical checks out with what independent researchers say, but there is no support here for the idea that ClO2 is an effective internal medicine for malaria infection. AFTER EDIT: To reply to your kind reply below, I am aware of what reply layer we are in here. But the submitted article, after all, was about treatment of human patients who have already been infected by the malaria parasite. For a top-level comment then to come in under that article that has nothing to do with internal medicine use of the advocated chemical is, at least, a sign of careless reading, and possibly a sign of greater tendentiousness. (Other participants here have pointed out the several words and phrases in several of the comments to which I am replying that suggest that that subthread is not based on familiarity with medical research and the methods of medical research.)
harrisreynolds 14y ago
Did you happen to read the HN story from a couple days ago? http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/semmelweis http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/semmelweis It'd be interesting if in 100 years we were reading the same story about ClO2. Everyone thought the doctor suggesting that everyone wash their hands before delivering a baby was a "quack" when the evidence suggested otherwise. I am only saying I'd like to see objective research here. If the result is that ClO2 is not effective in any way or that it does more harm than good then that is fine; BUT, if the result was that it was effective in very low doses, we should accept that as well. Let hard science prevail... not the quacks or the quack police.
- mikeash 14y ago
  The difference is that all you have to do to avoid the "quack" label today is produce evidence that your treatment works. If this crazy-ass bleach treatment actually works like they say it does, it shouldn't be hard to produce evidence to back it up. Until and unless they can produce such evidence, it's only right to criticize those promoting the treatment.
  - aggronn 14y ago
    To be fair, that's exactly what he's asking for.
    - Goronmon 14y ago
      And yet, the proponents for it's effectiveness have yet to provide any evidence that it's worth studying. People who have no reason to believe it will work don't have a lot of incentive to test whether it works. Then again, the people who benefit from it's popularity and don't care if it works don't have much of an incentive to test it either.
    - mikeash 14y ago
      The key was in my last sentence: "Until and unless they can produce such evidence, it's only right to criticize those promoting the treatment."
- 14y ago

astrodust 14y ago

If you mix that with colloidal silver and ground up quartz crystals I bet you'd literally live forever. You could probably walk on water, too.

tptacek 14y ago

"We gotta give him just enough [industrial bleaching agent] that he don't get sick but he's on the edge of getting sick! So we've got to keep him just on the very edge and therefore it's pretty intense for cancer, he needs to take it 4/5 times a day, small amounts instead of a big batch." http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/15/miracle-mineral-solutions-mms-bleach http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/15/miracle-minera... (These guys also appear to be anti-vaxers).