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I believe the following parts of the iOS App Store Review Guidelines answer your question: * We have lots of kids downloading lots of apps, and parental contro

I believe the following parts of the iOS App Store Review Guidelines answer your question: * We have lots of kids downloading lots of apps, and parental controls don't work unless the parents set them up (many don't). So know that we're keeping an eye out for the kids. * We will reject Apps for any content or behavior that we believe is over the line. What line, you ask? Well, as a Supreme Court Justice once said, "I'll know it when I see it". And we think that you will also know it when you cross it. * This is a living document, and new apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time. Perhaps your app will trigger this. * Lastly, we love this stuff too, and honor what you do. We're really trying our best to create the best platform in the world for you to express your talents and make a living too. If it sounds like we're control freaks, well, maybe it's because we're so committed to our users and making sure they have a quality experience with our products. Just like almost all of you are too.

roc 14y ago
If they have a parental control feature, recognize that it's not usually turned on, so set app store policy assuming parental control isn't on, but that style of protection is desirable ... why don't they just default parental control to "on"? Or at least make it a device-setup-time prompt? Of the "iOS' walled garden is anticonsumer" concerns - the one that's in regular demonstration is Apple's refusal to allow adults to indicate that they really are grown up enough to be exposed to content regarding politics, religion, war and, yeah, even sex.
- delinka 14y ago
  "...parental controls don't work unless the parents set them up (many don't)." This is still the problem. You don't know whether the kid or the parent opened the box and set the phone up the first time.
  - danielweber 14y ago
    If my kid someone ordered a cellphone without my knowledge and got it shipped to my house and opened it and set it up, I have a lot bigger problems than him finding sex or "wrong" political opinions on that phone. While I know some people at HN would still be mad if the App Store defaulted to "kid safe," it's a fix with much smaller side-effects than outright bans. Assuming "to protect the kids" is really the motive.
    - delinka 14y ago
      Now suppose that clueless suburban soccer mom got her kid an iPhone and doesn't [want to] know anything about configuring this device. Box arrives, she hands it to the kid. Yes, this parent has problems. And it's this situation that Apple thinks they're watching out for.
      - jlgreco 14y ago
        Then the kid stumbles across adult material on his new fancy phone, and is apparently scarred for life. Oh wait, this already "happens". The phones come with webbrowsers.
  - CamperBob2 14y ago
    So set it to "child-safe" mode by default, and require a credit card or other age-verification mechanism to unlock it. I really don't understand what problem Apple is trying to solve.
    - fpgeek 14y ago
      Cynically, I'd say Apple is (successfully, judging by the commentary here) solving the problem of finding reasonable-sounding justifications of their app store approval process (and the inevitable arbitrary decisions that come with it).
    - roc 14y ago
      They're trying to avoid the situation where they have to stand up to a morality-in-the-media-type group and defend someone else's freedom of expression. Allowing the web is PR-defensible: "it's the web". But when it comes to things you explicitly review and choose to allow in your store, you're forced to either stand up for adults' right to that content, or you preemptively censor yourself and your suppliers. (a la Walmart)
mike-cardwell 14y ago
None of that answers my question. Why can't adults opt in to seeing adult apps? There are literally hundreds of millions of non-iDevice smartphone users who don't live with these restrictions and who are not being harmed at all. Is there something special about iDevice users that means they need extra protection? Of course not.
- randomdata 14y ago
  The first point seems to cover it: Kids will just opt-in too.
  - slig 14y ago
    Then ask for a password, credit card number, whatever.
    - randomdata 14y ago
      I'm not sure how a password can validate a person's age and I had a credit card long before I was 18.
      - kalininalex 14y ago
        "I had a credit card long before I was 18" And this is a different problem that also needs to solved.
        randomdata 14y ago
        Why? It was a great way to learn financial responsibility and start building a credit history. I have never gone a month without paying the balance off in full, so it seemed to serve me well. People jumping into credit late in life as an adult without any teachings on how to properly manage their financials is the greater problem here.
        clobber 14y ago
jcromartie 14y ago
The review guidelines have a surprisingly human tone to them.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  Properly written that way to make you feel connected to a human - and not some cold, no feeling facistic reviewer.
- ken 14y ago
  Yes, many (but not all) of Apple's developer documents do, especially developer release notes for new and/or experimental features.
- mcantelon 14y ago
  They certainly do: simultaneously arrogant, condescending and vague.
  - jcromartie 14y ago
    I didn't say they were friendly. They just don't sound like typical legal boilerplate.
- tripzilch 14y ago
  I don't know, I read it in the voice of GladOS.
sampsonjs 14y ago
I think I missed something. I'm pretty sure I knew what death was before I hit puberty. Does this app include photos of the result of the strikes? Is there supposed to be a "talk" you have with your kids around age 12 or 13 where you explain what drones are and reveal for the first time that there is a war in Afghanistan and Pakistan?
- daten 14y ago
  Many places encourage the kids to pledge allegiance to the country carrying out those strikes. It seams like that talk should happen before they're taught the pledge.
fab1an 14y ago
If parental control is truly the main issue, face detection algorithms that also assess your age could be a solution [1], but then again, it seems like Samsung is owning the patent for this [2]. Oops! Sources: 1. http://www.sync-blog.com/sync/2012/04/how-old-do-you-look-face-com-has-the-answer.html http://www.sync-blog.com/sync/2012/04/how-old-do-you-look-fa... 2. http://www.google.com/patents/US8218080 http://www.google.com/patents/US8218080
woodsielord 14y ago
BS argument through and through. 1st* You need an Apple ID with a credit card to use the App Store. Ergo, adult work. Ergo, parental controls can be integrated into the credit card screen by the simple checkbox "Is the user of this account an adult?" 2nd* Supreme Court Justice is given the authority by the state to decide on immense matters after years of honorable (which is their title, by the way) service. Nice attempt at equating that with an app review team, whose job, according to an Apple employee, is to look "at things that may or may not be dcks all day long." 3rd Blabla. 4th* More blabla with qualifiers to look like one of us.
- Splines 14y ago
  > You need an Apple ID with a credit card to use the App Store. Ergo, adult work. Ergo, parental controls can be integrated into the credit card screen by the simple checkbox "Is the user of this account an adult?" I'm pretty sure you don't, at least beyond the first-time setup of the account. My son has an iTunes account and we "fund" it through iTunes gift cards. There is no credit card attached at all. Once his gift card credit is used up, no more purchases for him.
  - delinka 14y ago
    Not to mention Visa gift cards.
  - option_greek 14y ago
    Isn't safari only a few clicks away anyway.. after all the web is darker than any app store.
  - lancewiggs 14y ago
    You don't need a credit card to open an iTunes account. Select None for payment type when creating the account after switching country and purchasing a free app. Then use gift cards from the target country, which can be purchased here and there. http://lancewiggs.com/2010/04/13/how-to-have-a-us-itunes-account-on-your-ipad-iphone-apple-tv/ http://lancewiggs.com/2010/04/13/how-to-have-a-us-itunes-acc...
TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Wow, I thought you were joking and making it up. But it turns out these are actual store guidelines, and they are written in this style.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
cageface 14y ago
The mobile platform is looking more and more like the central computing platform of the next decade at least and it's way too important to allow one company's Romper Room sensibilities to determine what is and is not expressible in this new medium. I don't want to live in a digital Disneyworld. "Protecting the children" is always the scoundrel's excuse for pushing censorship and control over the line of a sensible balance.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
outside1234 14y ago
so, in the hands of a islam adherent, an app that shows any female less than fully clothed is over the line. why aren't they being blocked? i knew it when i saw it! (There nothing wrong with this viewpoint - i am just using this an example that there are lot of view points out there and Apple shouldn't be making the call on what is in the lines.)
tripzilch 14y ago
How do those last two points have anything to do with his question?

roc 14y ago

If they have a parental control feature, recognize that it's not usually turned on, so set app store policy assuming parental control isn't on, but that style of protection is desirable ... why don't they just default parental control to "on"? Or at least make it a device-setup-time prompt? Of the "iOS' walled garden is anticonsumer" concerns - the one that's in regular demonstration is Apple's refusal to allow adults to indicate that they really are grown up enough to be exposed to content regarding politics, religion, war and, yeah, even sex.

delinka 14y ago
"...parental controls don't work unless the parents set them up (many don't)." This is still the problem. You don't know whether the kid or the parent opened the box and set the phone up the first time.
- danielweber 14y ago
  If my kid someone ordered a cellphone without my knowledge and got it shipped to my house and opened it and set it up, I have a lot bigger problems than him finding sex or "wrong" political opinions on that phone. While I know some people at HN would still be mad if the App Store defaulted to "kid safe," it's a fix with much smaller side-effects than outright bans. Assuming "to protect the kids" is really the motive.
  - delinka 14y ago
    Now suppose that clueless suburban soccer mom got her kid an iPhone and doesn't [want to] know anything about configuring this device. Box arrives, she hands it to the kid. Yes, this parent has problems. And it's this situation that Apple thinks they're watching out for.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      Then the kid stumbles across adult material on his new fancy phone, and is apparently scarred for life. Oh wait, this already "happens". The phones come with webbrowsers.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  So set it to "child-safe" mode by default, and require a credit card or other age-verification mechanism to unlock it. I really don't understand what problem Apple is trying to solve.
  - fpgeek 14y ago
    Cynically, I'd say Apple is (successfully, judging by the commentary here) solving the problem of finding reasonable-sounding justifications of their app store approval process (and the inevitable arbitrary decisions that come with it).
  - roc 14y ago
    They're trying to avoid the situation where they have to stand up to a morality-in-the-media-type group and defend someone else's freedom of expression. Allowing the web is PR-defensible: "it's the web". But when it comes to things you explicitly review and choose to allow in your store, you're forced to either stand up for adults' right to that content, or you preemptively censor yourself and your suppliers. (a la Walmart)

mike-cardwell 14y ago

None of that answers my question. Why can't adults opt in to seeing adult apps? There are literally hundreds of millions of non-iDevice smartphone users who don't live with these restrictions and who are not being harmed at all. Is there something special about iDevice users that means they need extra protection? Of course not.

randomdata 14y ago
The first point seems to cover it: Kids will just opt-in too.
- slig 14y ago
  Then ask for a password, credit card number, whatever.
  - randomdata 14y ago
    I'm not sure how a password can validate a person's age and I had a credit card long before I was 18.
    - kalininalex 14y ago
      "I had a credit card long before I was 18" And this is a different problem that also needs to solved.
      - randomdata 14y ago
        Why? It was a great way to learn financial responsibility and start building a credit history. I have never gone a month without paying the balance off in full, so it seemed to serve me well. People jumping into credit late in life as an adult without any teachings on how to properly manage their financials is the greater problem here.
        clobber 14y ago

jcromartie 14y ago

The review guidelines have a surprisingly human tone to them.

tomjen3 14y ago
Properly written that way to make you feel connected to a human - and not some cold, no feeling facistic reviewer.
ken 14y ago
Yes, many (but not all) of Apple's developer documents do, especially developer release notes for new and/or experimental features.
mcantelon 14y ago
They certainly do: simultaneously arrogant, condescending and vague.
- jcromartie 14y ago
  I didn't say they were friendly. They just don't sound like typical legal boilerplate.
tripzilch 14y ago
I don't know, I read it in the voice of GladOS.

sampsonjs 14y ago

I think I missed something. I'm pretty sure I knew what death was before I hit puberty. Does this app include photos of the result of the strikes? Is there supposed to be a "talk" you have with your kids around age 12 or 13 where you explain what drones are and reveal for the first time that there is a war in Afghanistan and Pakistan?

daten 14y ago
Many places encourage the kids to pledge allegiance to the country carrying out those strikes. It seams like that talk should happen before they're taught the pledge.

fab1an 14y ago

If parental control is truly the main issue, face detection algorithms that also assess your age could be a solution [1], but then again, it seems like Samsung is owning the patent for this [2]. Oops! Sources: 1. http://www.sync-blog.com/sync/2012/04/how-old-do-you-look-face-com-has-the-answer.html http://www.sync-blog.com/sync/2012/04/how-old-do-you-look-fa... 2. http://www.google.com/patents/US8218080 http://www.google.com/patents/US8218080

woodsielord 14y ago

BS argument through and through. 1st* You need an Apple ID with a credit card to use the App Store. Ergo, adult work. Ergo, parental controls can be integrated into the credit card screen by the simple checkbox "Is the user of this account an adult?" 2nd* Supreme Court Justice is given the authority by the state to decide on immense matters after years of honorable (which is their title, by the way) service. Nice attempt at equating that with an app review team, whose job, according to an Apple employee, is to look "at things that may or may not be dcks all day long." 3rd Blabla. 4th* More blabla with qualifiers to look like one of us.

Splines 14y ago
> You need an Apple ID with a credit card to use the App Store. Ergo, adult work. Ergo, parental controls can be integrated into the credit card screen by the simple checkbox "Is the user of this account an adult?" I'm pretty sure you don't, at least beyond the first-time setup of the account. My son has an iTunes account and we "fund" it through iTunes gift cards. There is no credit card attached at all. Once his gift card credit is used up, no more purchases for him.
- delinka 14y ago
  Not to mention Visa gift cards.
- option_greek 14y ago
  Isn't safari only a few clicks away anyway.. after all the web is darker than any app store.
- lancewiggs 14y ago
  You don't need a credit card to open an iTunes account. Select None for payment type when creating the account after switching country and purchasing a free app. Then use gift cards from the target country, which can be purchased here and there. http://lancewiggs.com/2010/04/13/how-to-have-a-us-itunes-account-on-your-ipad-iphone-apple-tv/ http://lancewiggs.com/2010/04/13/how-to-have-a-us-itunes-acc...

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

Wow, I thought you were joking and making it up. But it turns out these are actual store guidelines, and they are written in this style.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

cageface 14y ago

The mobile platform is looking more and more like the central computing platform of the next decade at least and it's way too important to allow one company's Romper Room sensibilities to determine what is and is not expressible in this new medium. I don't want to live in a digital Disneyworld. "Protecting the children" is always the scoundrel's excuse for pushing censorship and control over the line of a sensible balance.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

outside1234 14y ago

so, in the hands of a islam adherent, an app that shows any female less than fully clothed is over the line. why aren't they being blocked? i knew it when i saw it! (There nothing wrong with this viewpoint - i am just using this an example that there are lot of view points out there and Apple shouldn't be making the call on what is in the lines.)

tripzilch 14y ago

How do those last two points have anything to do with his question?