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This - among many other reasons - is why I’m increasingly throwing my opinions behind shoving these roles onto the United Nations instead of nation states or pr

This - among many other reasons - is why I’m increasingly throwing my opinions behind shoving these roles onto the United Nations instead of nation states or private companies. Global needs should have global support, such that the failure of one hegemony doesn’t fuck up everything for the rest of humanity A UN program for weather forecasting and satellite tracking, complete with open data sources and REST APIs, would be a boon. Unfortunately, the current organizational structure makes that impossible due to the vested interests of the respective Security Council members. We’re more likely to see the EU take up those mantles.

dgrin91 1y ago
Also the practicality of this is that most of the UN funding will come from the US. When a situation like this where US is cutting funding arises you get the same problem. Almost all finding will dry up overnight and they won't have sufficient funding to continue
- bryanrasmussen 1y ago
  I sort of wonder when the UN is getting thrown out of New York by the current administration.
  - chgs 1y ago
    I have no doubt China would offer a far better location somewhere like Shanghai. The intelligence benefits of so many foreign diplomats and spies walking your street, drinking in your bars, paying your hookers, is incalculable.
- stego-tech 1y ago
  Yep, keenly aware of that, but if we’re building a new future that’s resilient to modern structural collapse and civilizational crises, then part of that is changing the structure of the UN, dues/fees, and its functions. There’s a lot to discuss there once enough folks have accepted the era of US Hegemony is over.
  - h2zizzle 1y ago
    High hopes, those. The point of sabotaging US hegemony was not to hand power over to a monolithic, democratic, primarily Western institution, I'll tell you that much. I suspect that the Galts want their gulches (with Do Not Create Rapture as the template).
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  And they can just pull out of it whenever and frame the UN as a boogeyman like with the WHO.
- wickedsight 1y ago
  Sure. But if US gov is doing it, there's no clear way for other countries to just jump in and foot the bill. If UN is in charge, other countries could just keep paying for it. Whether that would happen is to be seen, but now it's down right impossible.
s5300 1y ago
[dead]
ben_w 1y ago
> Global needs should have global support, such that the failure of one hegemony doesn’t fuck up everything for the rest of humanity While this is true, I suspect that putting the UN in charge of all global matters will cause them to become such a hegemony. Until we have multiple planets (or equivalents), I think a multi-polar world with multiple superpowers capable and motivated to work on such things is important. Hopefully the superpowers will keep their fighting to "indirectly", like the USA and the USSR used to.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  Indirectly is great unless you don't live in the US/SR in which case it's in your backyard. Indirect fighting hasn't been so great for Afghanis.
  - ben_w 1y ago
    My most recent commute took me over the line of the Berlin wall. While what you say is true, a direct conflict between the USA and USSR would have been so much worse for most of the world. Co-incidentally, home discussion about "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" this evening.
    - AlecSchueler 1y ago
      I didn't mean to suggest direct conflict would be any better, I just found out disturbing to see NINBYism applied to war. Basically "let's hope it continues to be other people who suffer from our conflicts and never us."
      - ben_w 1y ago
        Mm. I get your vibe. …but also I think NINBYism is the wrong metaphor for the point you make: if everyone NINBYs housing, we have an end to housing and all suffer the shortage; if everyone NINBYs war, we have an end to war. But I get your vibe.
        1y ago
orbisvicis 1y ago
There's TraCSS, SST, RSSS. Each country needs to have their own satellite tracking program. There is international cooperation but do you really think the US is in charge? "Whoops", says the US as a small cubesat from another country collides with a Russian military space satellite. "Missed that one - my bad".
jandrewrogers 1y ago
I worked for the UN on more or less this in the 2000s. People have a naive perception of what the UN is like. It was one of the most openly dysfunctional, corrupt, and sclerotic organizations I have ever worked with or for. It has nothing to do with who is or isn't on the security council. That entire organization is full of the kinds of people who occupy the average government in the world, which is a very low standard of excellence. The UN has neither data infrastructure nor technical expertise to do something like this in any case. REST APIs? One of the big issues is that the data sources are measured in exabytes these days. That means there can only practically be a single copy. This creates an insurmountable hurdle: most countries contributing data want to keep their data in their country. This makes any use of that data computationally intractable because there is not enough bandwidth connect the disparate data sources together. Also, given this extreme (and mostly unnecessary) bandwidth consumption, now they have to severely restrict access to the data to keep the system usable, effectively making it no longer public. I've been to this particular rodeo several times. I have zero confidence it could deliver on the promise. It really would require someone with a singular vision, the technical expertise, and the courage to pull it off. A committee of bureaucrats isn't going to make it happen.

dgrin91 1y ago

Also the practicality of this is that most of the UN funding will come from the US. When a situation like this where US is cutting funding arises you get the same problem. Almost all finding will dry up overnight and they won't have sufficient funding to continue

bryanrasmussen 1y ago
I sort of wonder when the UN is getting thrown out of New York by the current administration.
- chgs 1y ago
  I have no doubt China would offer a far better location somewhere like Shanghai. The intelligence benefits of so many foreign diplomats and spies walking your street, drinking in your bars, paying your hookers, is incalculable.
stego-tech 1y ago
Yep, keenly aware of that, but if we’re building a new future that’s resilient to modern structural collapse and civilizational crises, then part of that is changing the structure of the UN, dues/fees, and its functions. There’s a lot to discuss there once enough folks have accepted the era of US Hegemony is over.
- h2zizzle 1y ago
  High hopes, those. The point of sabotaging US hegemony was not to hand power over to a monolithic, democratic, primarily Western institution, I'll tell you that much. I suspect that the Galts want their gulches (with Do Not Create Rapture as the template).
AlecSchueler 1y ago
And they can just pull out of it whenever and frame the UN as a boogeyman like with the WHO.
wickedsight 1y ago
Sure. But if US gov is doing it, there's no clear way for other countries to just jump in and foot the bill. If UN is in charge, other countries could just keep paying for it. Whether that would happen is to be seen, but now it's down right impossible.

s5300 1y ago

[dead]

ben_w 1y ago

> Global needs should have global support, such that the failure of one hegemony doesn’t fuck up everything for the rest of humanity While this is true, I suspect that putting the UN in charge of all global matters will cause them to become such a hegemony. Until we have multiple planets (or equivalents), I think a multi-polar world with multiple superpowers capable and motivated to work on such things is important. Hopefully the superpowers will keep their fighting to "indirectly", like the USA and the USSR used to.

AlecSchueler 1y ago
Indirectly is great unless you don't live in the US/SR in which case it's in your backyard. Indirect fighting hasn't been so great for Afghanis.
- ben_w 1y ago
  My most recent commute took me over the line of the Berlin wall. While what you say is true, a direct conflict between the USA and USSR would have been so much worse for most of the world. Co-incidentally, home discussion about "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" this evening.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    I didn't mean to suggest direct conflict would be any better, I just found out disturbing to see NINBYism applied to war. Basically "let's hope it continues to be other people who suffer from our conflicts and never us."
    - ben_w 1y ago
      Mm. I get your vibe. …but also I think NINBYism is the wrong metaphor for the point you make: if everyone NINBYs housing, we have an end to housing and all suffer the shortage; if everyone NINBYs war, we have an end to war. But I get your vibe.
      - 1y ago

orbisvicis 1y ago

There's TraCSS, SST, RSSS. Each country needs to have their own satellite tracking program. There is international cooperation but do you really think the US is in charge? "Whoops", says the US as a small cubesat from another country collides with a Russian military space satellite. "Missed that one - my bad".

jandrewrogers 1y ago

I worked for the UN on more or less this in the 2000s. People have a naive perception of what the UN is like. It was one of the most openly dysfunctional, corrupt, and sclerotic organizations I have ever worked with or for. It has nothing to do with who is or isn't on the security council. That entire organization is full of the kinds of people who occupy the average government in the world, which is a very low standard of excellence. The UN has neither data infrastructure nor technical expertise to do something like this in any case. REST APIs? One of the big issues is that the data sources are measured in exabytes these days. That means there can only practically be a single copy. This creates an insurmountable hurdle: most countries contributing data want to keep their data in their country. This makes any use of that data computationally intractable because there is not enough bandwidth connect the disparate data sources together. Also, given this extreme (and mostly unnecessary) bandwidth consumption, now they have to severely restrict access to the data to keep the system usable, effectively making it no longer public. I've been to this particular rodeo several times. I have zero confidence it could deliver on the promise. It really would require someone with a singular vision, the technical expertise, and the courage to pull it off. A committee of bureaucrats isn't going to make it happen.