4 ms·

Is this info correct? - 2.4 million bitcoins are lost forever. Their owners, for one reason or another, can't access their wallets. No insurance, no guarantees

by pyman 1y ago

Is this info correct? - 2.4 million bitcoins are lost forever. Their owners, for one reason or another, can't access their wallets. No insurance, no guarantees, nothing. - 1.1 million are owned by a mysterious person who sits at the top of the pyramid. - 2.3 million belong to investors and speculators, who make money by pumping and dumping. - 1 million are owned by banks, the same institutions the mysterious man said his system would replace. - 1.6 million are held by whales: billionaires, money launderers, narcos, weapons dealers, and so on. - 1.4 million are still left to be mined, but only a handful of rich people with servers worth millions can actually mine them. - The rest are owned by individuals who see it as a long term investment. - It's a digital currency most people don't use to buy or sell anything. The only ones making transactions are banks, investors, and the rich. - And if you own even a tiny bit of bitcoin, and read something like this, you go ballistic and end up siding with the banks, investors, and the rich to keep the system going. I can't think of a worse system to fight inequality. The banks won.

zahlman 1y ago
> 2.4 million bitcoins are lost forever I don't have access to the sources for your numbers, but you fail to explain why this is a problem. Physical bills get lost or destroyed all the time, too. > the same institutions the mysterious man said his system would replace. I'm unaware of Nakamoto making any such claim. At most there was a goal to provide an alternative to the fiat currency system (https://cointelegraph.com/learn/articles/what-is-the-purpose-of-bitcoin-speculation-or-dollarization https://cointelegraph.com/learn/articles/what-is-the-purpose...). It turns out that people - most notably merchants - are thus far uninterested in using it that way. Government fiat is how everyone is accustomed to valuing legal tender. Further, government currently will not allow for fractional reserve banking to be done using Bitcoin deposits. FRB is essential to how our credit system works - although I imagine it would also cause a problem for Bitcoin anyway, since its value is supposed to depend on artificial scarcity. > only a handful of rich people with servers worth millions can actually mine them. Historically, Bitcoin can be and has been mined on consumer hardware. Whether this is profitable will depend on several factors, but it's one of the reasons that consumer grade graphics cards have increased in price lately. I'm unaware of any major economies of scale here. > And if you own even a tiny bit of bitcoin, and read something like this, you go ballistic You have apparently been around HN for 16 years; you should know better than to post like this. > I can't think of a worse system to fight inequality. This is a complete non sequitur. "Fighting inequality" is not as far as I can tell a goal of Bitcoin, and in general new technologies have no moral obligation to do so. > The banks won. This is fundamentally at odds with your own claim that criminals - especially money launderers - hold large amounts of Bitcoin.
- pyman 1y ago
  Facts matter: - Inequality: Research from 2025 has found that the popularity and application of cryptocurrencies have not only promoted financial innovation, but also exacerbated wealth inequality. In other words, blockchain developers have made the gap between rich and poor even worse. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/391506544_Cryptocurrency_and_Economic_Inequality_A_Global_Economic_Order_Analysis https://www.researchgate.net/publication/391506544_Cryptocur... - As banks buy up bitcoins, who else are the 'Bitcoin whales'? https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68434579.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68434579.amp - A quote from Satoshi's forum message that he posted on Feb. 11, 2009. It explains the goal of creating Bitcoin and why using banks demands too much trust with no guaranteed positive outcome. https://u.today/did-satoshi-nakamoto-foresee-current-bank-crisis-his-bitcoin-statement-may-suggest-so?amp https://u.today/did-satoshi-nakamoto-foresee-current-bank-cr... - Prior to May 2021 Bitcoin miners were hugely concentrated, with around 60% to 70% located in China. https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/bitcoin-who-owns-it-who-mines-it-whos-breaking-law https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/bitcoin-who-ow... - Bitcoin ownership is concentrated among the rich. Research showed that at the end of 2020, there were 1,000 “clusters” controlling 2 million bitcoins. https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/bitcoin-who-owns-it-who-mines-it-whos-breaking-law https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/bitcoin-who-ow... - Between February 2011 and July 2013, drug dealers operating on Silk Road facilitated sales amounting to 9,519,664 bitcoins. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_(marketplace) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_(marketplace) As I said before, the banks won.
- lbreakjai 1y ago
  > Historically, Bitcoin can be and has been mined on consumer hardware. Whether this is profitable will depend on several factors, but it's one of the reasons that consumer grade graphics cards have increased in price lately. I'm unaware of any major economies of scale here. Mining bitcoin with consumer grade GPUs hasn't been viable for a very long time. Any serious miner will be using ASICs. The reason why GPU prices exploded is the double hit of COVID supply chain disruption followed by the emergence of LLMs.

by pyman 1y ago

zahlman 1y ago

> 2.4 million bitcoins are lost forever I don't have access to the sources for your numbers, but you fail to explain why this is a problem. Physical bills get lost or destroyed all the time, too. > the same institutions the mysterious man said his system would replace. I'm unaware of Nakamoto making any such claim. At most there was a goal to provide an alternative to the fiat currency system (https://cointelegraph.com/learn/articles/what-is-the-purpose-of-bitcoin-speculation-or-dollarization https://cointelegraph.com/learn/articles/what-is-the-purpose...). It turns out that people - most notably merchants - are thus far uninterested in using it that way. Government fiat is how everyone is accustomed to valuing legal tender. Further, government currently will not allow for fractional reserve banking to be done using Bitcoin deposits. FRB is essential to how our credit system works - although I imagine it would also cause a problem for Bitcoin anyway, since its value is supposed to depend on artificial scarcity. > only a handful of rich people with servers worth millions can actually mine them. Historically, Bitcoin can be and has been mined on consumer hardware. Whether this is profitable will depend on several factors, but it's one of the reasons that consumer grade graphics cards have increased in price lately. I'm unaware of any major economies of scale here. > And if you own even a tiny bit of bitcoin, and read something like this, you go ballistic You have apparently been around HN for 16 years; you should know better than to post like this. > I can't think of a worse system to fight inequality. This is a complete non sequitur. "Fighting inequality" is not as far as I can tell a goal of Bitcoin, and in general new technologies have no moral obligation to do so. > The banks won. This is fundamentally at odds with your own claim that criminals - especially money launderers - hold large amounts of Bitcoin.

pyman 1y ago
Facts matter: - Inequality: Research from 2025 has found that the popularity and application of cryptocurrencies have not only promoted financial innovation, but also exacerbated wealth inequality. In other words, blockchain developers have made the gap between rich and poor even worse. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/391506544_Cryptocurrency_and_Economic_Inequality_A_Global_Economic_Order_Analysis https://www.researchgate.net/publication/391506544_Cryptocur... - As banks buy up bitcoins, who else are the 'Bitcoin whales'? https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68434579.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68434579.amp - A quote from Satoshi's forum message that he posted on Feb. 11, 2009. It explains the goal of creating Bitcoin and why using banks demands too much trust with no guaranteed positive outcome. https://u.today/did-satoshi-nakamoto-foresee-current-bank-crisis-his-bitcoin-statement-may-suggest-so?amp https://u.today/did-satoshi-nakamoto-foresee-current-bank-cr... - Prior to May 2021 Bitcoin miners were hugely concentrated, with around 60% to 70% located in China. https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/bitcoin-who-owns-it-who-mines-it-whos-breaking-law https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/bitcoin-who-ow... - Bitcoin ownership is concentrated among the rich. Research showed that at the end of 2020, there were 1,000 “clusters” controlling 2 million bitcoins. https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/bitcoin-who-owns-it-who-mines-it-whos-breaking-law https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/bitcoin-who-ow... - Between February 2011 and July 2013, drug dealers operating on Silk Road facilitated sales amounting to 9,519,664 bitcoins. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_(marketplace) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_(marketplace) As I said before, the banks won.
lbreakjai 1y ago
> Historically, Bitcoin can be and has been mined on consumer hardware. Whether this is profitable will depend on several factors, but it's one of the reasons that consumer grade graphics cards have increased in price lately. I'm unaware of any major economies of scale here. Mining bitcoin with consumer grade GPUs hasn't been viable for a very long time. Any serious miner will be using ASICs. The reason why GPU prices exploded is the double hit of COVID supply chain disruption followed by the emergence of LLMs.