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Not sure about the "heated argument". Off-topic, yes. But heated ? Is it really possible to deny the statistical links established, the correlations, existing

by vhf 14y ago

Not sure about the "heated argument". Off-topic, yes. But heated ? Is it really possible to deny the statistical links established, the correlations, existing between (# of weapons in given country) and (# of violent death), or better (# of death by gunfire), or better (# of shootings) ? Hmmm. Well. You're probably right. If someone can deny evolution, he can deny this just as well. So let's not troll here. :)

PostOnce 14y ago
Canned response: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gun_crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gun... Anyway, the debate will become irrelevant in a few years when they're printable (I suppose they'll try ammunition control instead). So will a lot of other things. The economy is about to change again, probably as large as a change as the internet has brought.
- vhf 14y ago
  That's not a response... http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/specials/switzerland_for_the_record/european_records/Switzerland_s_troubling_record_of_suicide.html?cid=8301804 http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/specials/switzerland_for_the_rec... Switzerland holds the European record for rate of gun suicide, and record of guns per capita. Suicide is the leading cause of death for people younger than 35. There's clearly a problem with the Swiss legal obligation of having a gun at home. (Mandatory for every conscript soldier, i.e. almost every swiss man, including me.) I do believe that if I was not obligated to have a gun at home, I would not willfully buy one and thus would not have access to one.
  - tlear 14y ago
    Just so you don't randomly decide to kill yourself? If you want to kill yourself you will lack of a gun is not an issue.
  - PostOnce 14y ago
    Conversely, South Korea has absurdly strict gun laws (i.e., even hunters must keep their rifles at the police station and not at home during the off-season) and almost no-one owns a gun. Despite that, South Korea has possibly the highest suicide rate in the world. see also: Lithuania
nitrogen 14y ago
If HN can get "heated" about Apple vs. Android, a discussion of a traditionally much more vigorously debated subject like gun control has just as much, if not more, potential to go up in flames. And, as always, correlation != causation. Statistics don't take cultural differences between and within countries into account, statistics don't explain how to deal with millions of angry gun owners as the police come around to gather all the firearms, etc., so there is ample opportunity for argument there.
MrMember 14y ago
Statistics about gun deaths or shootings have to be looked at critically. Such statistics include all gun deaths, not just the 'unjustified' ones. Suicide, personal defense, and police shootings are all included in those statistics. In my opinion, though, gun death statistics aren't the relevant statistics to look at anyway, it's violent crime statistics. Would the people who commit crimes with guns still commit them if they didn't have guns?
- bunderbunder 14y ago
  The standard response to that in the USA is, would people who commit crimes still commit them (with guns or without) if they thought there was a significant chance of getting shot in the process?

by vhf 14y ago

PostOnce 14y ago

Canned response: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gun_crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gun... Anyway, the debate will become irrelevant in a few years when they're printable (I suppose they'll try ammunition control instead). So will a lot of other things. The economy is about to change again, probably as large as a change as the internet has brought.

vhf 14y ago
That's not a response... http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/specials/switzerland_for_the_record/european_records/Switzerland_s_troubling_record_of_suicide.html?cid=8301804 http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/specials/switzerland_for_the_rec... Switzerland holds the European record for rate of gun suicide, and record of guns per capita. Suicide is the leading cause of death for people younger than 35. There's clearly a problem with the Swiss legal obligation of having a gun at home. (Mandatory for every conscript soldier, i.e. almost every swiss man, including me.) I do believe that if I was not obligated to have a gun at home, I would not willfully buy one and thus would not have access to one.
- tlear 14y ago
  Just so you don't randomly decide to kill yourself? If you want to kill yourself you will lack of a gun is not an issue.
- PostOnce 14y ago
  Conversely, South Korea has absurdly strict gun laws (i.e., even hunters must keep their rifles at the police station and not at home during the off-season) and almost no-one owns a gun. Despite that, South Korea has possibly the highest suicide rate in the world. see also: Lithuania

nitrogen 14y ago

If HN can get "heated" about Apple vs. Android, a discussion of a traditionally much more vigorously debated subject like gun control has just as much, if not more, potential to go up in flames. And, as always, correlation != causation. Statistics don't take cultural differences between and within countries into account, statistics don't explain how to deal with millions of angry gun owners as the police come around to gather all the firearms, etc., so there is ample opportunity for argument there.

MrMember 14y ago

Statistics about gun deaths or shootings have to be looked at critically. Such statistics include all gun deaths, not just the 'unjustified' ones. Suicide, personal defense, and police shootings are all included in those statistics. In my opinion, though, gun death statistics aren't the relevant statistics to look at anyway, it's violent crime statistics. Would the people who commit crimes with guns still commit them if they didn't have guns?

bunderbunder 14y ago
The standard response to that in the USA is, would people who commit crimes still commit them (with guns or without) if they thought there was a significant chance of getting shot in the process?