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I keep seeing that argument made but it doesn't make any sense. Yes, Apple may deserve a cut when a user was acquired thanks to the app store alone. Like in th

I keep seeing that argument made but it doesn't make any sense. Yes, Apple may deserve a cut when a user was acquired thanks to the app store alone. Like in that case when you're an indie developer and the app store putting your app listing in front of potential new users is genuinely helpful. However, to many developers, and especially large ones like Spotify that do their own marketing, the app store is a hindrance. It's an obstacle they need to clear. It provides no value to them. Spotify is able to "access billions of Apple customers" because Spotify spends millions on ads and because statistically some people who would like to use Spotify on their phone happen to have an iPhone. Apple has no part in this at all. Simple as that.

itopaloglu83 1y ago
I would like to explain it, if you're genuinely interested. Apple designs and manufactures incredible hardware and software. The ecosystem they created is beautiful, secure, and intuitive to use. When it was first announced, many people started using it even before they allowed apps on it. Apple later launched the App Store and allowed 3rd party developers access to their platform in exchange for a percentage of the sale price. And this is where most people trip, it's their platform, not an open ecosystem. Apple is granting Spotify access to billions of Apple's users in exchange for a cut of the sale price. It doesn't matter if one person bought a subscription or one million, the platform still belongs to Apple. And in exchange billions of Apple customers are likely to purchase a subscription from Spotify. If a company builds a 50,000 people capacity football stadium, and I open a concession stand in there in exchange for a percentage of the sales, can I say I want to sell to all these people without paying my contractual obligations? Spotify is free to sell their subscriptions and install their applications wherever they like but that's not the contractual agreement they had with Apple. Private ownership is essential to our economy, Apple created this platform and their own it. Forcibly taking it from them would give all the wrong signals to everyone else about what could happen to them next. Who knows, maybe someone says you voted for the wrong party. --- Digital marketplace, not just Apple or gatekeepers or whatever, must be regulated from the first principles. A couple of rich software companies cozying up to regulators and trying to force changes that will increase only their profit margins is not the way to do it in my humble opinion.
- stale2002 1y ago
  > . Apple is granting Spotify access No. Those users control themselves. They are not Apples users. They own their own device and they are free to do whatever they want with the hardware that they own. > the platform still belongs to Apple No actually. The device is owned by the user. > billions of Apple customers They aren't Apples. They own their own device. > e but that's not the contractual agreement they had with Apple. Or instead of that, they can completely ignore apple's copntract, and force Apple by law to allow them access to this market. If apple doesn't like it, then they can leave the EU entirely, or accept 10s of billions of dollars in fines. > Forcibly taking it Its not Apples. The device belongs to the user. > must be regulated from the first principles. Ok, and what about the first principle of "A user owns there own device and should be free to pay Apple exactly 0 dollars for the ability to install spotify on the device that they own".
  - grishka 1y ago
    Thank you for writing it all out for me :D
  - itopaloglu83 1y ago
    You must be thinking this is all wrong. I completely understand and agree with your sentiment, but we're talking about what the contract says. I'm not allowed to install any software I want on my car's computer, the platform belongs to them. They don't provide the tools, libraries, the know-how, or even sue the people who share it online. And similarly, according to Apple's EULA the devices cannot run any app that is not approved by Apple and they can even revoke their approval or even disable the phone. Those were the license conditions the hardware sold under, which sounds very user hostile. Regardless, nobody has to buy their products, they chose to buy it because the benefits it provided surpassed the limitations. When Spotify created their developer account they knew what the limitations were as well. This isn't an open platform. One can sue Toyota to get access to install Spotify to Corollas and get another 500 million customers, but that also wouldn't work either. The only thing that can stop Apple is people not buying their products and developers not making apps therefore reducing the value of their ecosystem. Only then they will by themselves would open the ecosystem, which they should've done 5 years ago. Regarding the EU forcibly taking stuff over. Well, if push comes to shove, do you think the US would allow a 3 trillion dollar American company to be bullied, go after European companies or would they react in a really unpredictable way? Apple devices are successful because they provide a great value. They didn't just sell the hardware like Nokia did, they kept delivering software updates and spend billions of dollars sustaining the ecosystem. The limitations were put to improve user experience, for example they didn't allow apps to run continuously in the background so that users can have all day battery life. The high level of control they have allowed them to provide greater value than other ecosystems which brought more users and so on. This requires continuous work to keep it running and they're entitled to be paid for their work. And again, nobody has to buy their products, you can buy other products and install whatever software you want on those, and do whatever you want there. Android has a bigger marketshare and some people still use Nokia or Blackberry. --- A digital marketplace consists of everyone that participates in the digital economy not just Apple. All the websites, service providers, apps, hardware manufacturers, users, companies, and their interactions.

itopaloglu83 1y ago

I would like to explain it, if you're genuinely interested. Apple designs and manufactures incredible hardware and software. The ecosystem they created is beautiful, secure, and intuitive to use. When it was first announced, many people started using it even before they allowed apps on it. Apple later launched the App Store and allowed 3rd party developers access to their platform in exchange for a percentage of the sale price. And this is where most people trip, it's their platform, not an open ecosystem. Apple is granting Spotify access to billions of Apple's users in exchange for a cut of the sale price. It doesn't matter if one person bought a subscription or one million, the platform still belongs to Apple. And in exchange billions of Apple customers are likely to purchase a subscription from Spotify. If a company builds a 50,000 people capacity football stadium, and I open a concession stand in there in exchange for a percentage of the sales, can I say I want to sell to all these people without paying my contractual obligations? Spotify is free to sell their subscriptions and install their applications wherever they like but that's not the contractual agreement they had with Apple. Private ownership is essential to our economy, Apple created this platform and their own it. Forcibly taking it from them would give all the wrong signals to everyone else about what could happen to them next. Who knows, maybe someone says you voted for the wrong party. --- Digital marketplace, not just Apple or gatekeepers or whatever, must be regulated from the first principles. A couple of rich software companies cozying up to regulators and trying to force changes that will increase only their profit margins is not the way to do it in my humble opinion.

stale2002 1y ago
> . Apple is granting Spotify access No. Those users control themselves. They are not Apples users. They own their own device and they are free to do whatever they want with the hardware that they own. > the platform still belongs to Apple No actually. The device is owned by the user. > billions of Apple customers They aren't Apples. They own their own device. > e but that's not the contractual agreement they had with Apple. Or instead of that, they can completely ignore apple's copntract, and force Apple by law to allow them access to this market. If apple doesn't like it, then they can leave the EU entirely, or accept 10s of billions of dollars in fines. > Forcibly taking it Its not Apples. The device belongs to the user. > must be regulated from the first principles. Ok, and what about the first principle of "A user owns there own device and should be free to pay Apple exactly 0 dollars for the ability to install spotify on the device that they own".
- grishka 1y ago
  Thank you for writing it all out for me :D
- itopaloglu83 1y ago
  You must be thinking this is all wrong. I completely understand and agree with your sentiment, but we're talking about what the contract says. I'm not allowed to install any software I want on my car's computer, the platform belongs to them. They don't provide the tools, libraries, the know-how, or even sue the people who share it online. And similarly, according to Apple's EULA the devices cannot run any app that is not approved by Apple and they can even revoke their approval or even disable the phone. Those were the license conditions the hardware sold under, which sounds very user hostile. Regardless, nobody has to buy their products, they chose to buy it because the benefits it provided surpassed the limitations. When Spotify created their developer account they knew what the limitations were as well. This isn't an open platform. One can sue Toyota to get access to install Spotify to Corollas and get another 500 million customers, but that also wouldn't work either. The only thing that can stop Apple is people not buying their products and developers not making apps therefore reducing the value of their ecosystem. Only then they will by themselves would open the ecosystem, which they should've done 5 years ago. Regarding the EU forcibly taking stuff over. Well, if push comes to shove, do you think the US would allow a 3 trillion dollar American company to be bullied, go after European companies or would they react in a really unpredictable way? Apple devices are successful because they provide a great value. They didn't just sell the hardware like Nokia did, they kept delivering software updates and spend billions of dollars sustaining the ecosystem. The limitations were put to improve user experience, for example they didn't allow apps to run continuously in the background so that users can have all day battery life. The high level of control they have allowed them to provide greater value than other ecosystems which brought more users and so on. This requires continuous work to keep it running and they're entitled to be paid for their work. And again, nobody has to buy their products, you can buy other products and install whatever software you want on those, and do whatever you want there. Android has a bigger marketshare and some people still use Nokia or Blackberry. --- A digital marketplace consists of everyone that participates in the digital economy not just Apple. All the websites, service providers, apps, hardware manufacturers, users, companies, and their interactions.