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I think this NPR article is too quick to put a positive spin on this. They have made a nice little story here with a happy ending. Farmers had blackened turmeri

I think this NPR article is too quick to put a positive spin on this. They have made a nice little story here with a happy ending. Farmers had blackened turmeric -> they used a random yellow die they found -> massive lead spike in everyone's bloodstream -> Americans came in with a xray gun and saved the day -> no more lead in the blood. But if you ascribe even the slightest but of agency to any of the non-Americans involved, you have to wonder if this problem will come back.

aaron695 1y ago
[dead]
liveoneggs 1y ago
you mean like when those farmers in china poisoned baby formula? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal
shermantanktop 1y ago
That's a BS detection step that I apply to anecdotes: who lacks agency in this story?
Amezarak 1y ago
I don't think the NPR reporter is deliberately spinning the story. I think a lot of people don't really believe that other people are really different from them. The reporter would never knowingly poison people for money, so it's not comprehensible to them that lots of people in the world just don't care whether they do or not. The only reason in their minds that people would do such a thing are economic desperation combined with ignorance; if those two factors are gone, they really believe the problem has been forever solved.
- a123b456c 1y ago
  I have numerous experiences being quoted by NPR reporters. I have regularly observed them to deliberately frame stories to interest their audience (as I believe they should). In this case, if the reporter claims poisoning without sufficient evidence, the reporter and their employer will be attacked. If the reporter provides no plausible explanation, the story will be found wanting.
  - Amezarak 1y ago
    I think actively claiming poisoning is too far. You don't have to do that to not present the story as Problem Solved with a neat little bow tied; I just think like GP there's probably not a really serious evaluation of the underlying issues that led us here, and it's going to crop up again and again in different ways, maybe not tumeric explicitly if monitoring continues. FWIW I've also been quoted by reporters before, and was really upset. They framed what I was saying to mean exactly the opposite of what I was saying, I assume because it fit the story better - I am 100% certain they understood me at the time, because the full context of my remarks made it very clear and we had a long conversation. So I don't lend much credence anymore to things like "what did the people interviewed in this story actually think about anything."
- kayodelycaon 1y ago
  In the course of history, it wasn’t that long ago when people brought snacks to an execution. That’s a little hard to wrap your head around.
  - umeshunni 1y ago
    By it wasn't that long ago, you mean 10 years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deera_Square https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deera_Square
- phendrenad2 1y ago
  I dunno, NPR seems perfectly capable of reporting on crimes in general.
eitally 1y ago
Indeed. It reminds me very much of this ("toxic tofu" in Indonesia): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPyRAcdZHDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPyRAcdZHDo https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/14/world/asia/indonesia-tofu-dioxin-plastic.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/14/world/asia/indonesia-tofu...
abeppu 1y ago
> But if you ascribe even the slightest but of agency to any of the non-Americans involved, you have to wonder if this problem will come back. From the article: > And recently they are celebrating some big news on the lead fighting front: This week, UNICEF and the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) announced a new $150 million initiative to combat lead poisoning. Americans have disassembled USAID. The agency of Americans is also contributing to this reccuring.
- wtcactus 1y ago
  What about holding the people that do the crime accountable instead of the ones being continuously extorted into giving their money so that someone else doesn’t do something stupid and/or criminal?
- amy214 1y ago
  >Americans have disassembled USAID. The agency of Americans is also contributing to this reccuring. I didn't realize all non-American societies were doomed to terrible things if not for the pleasure of America's free handouts' interfering
- kazinator 1y ago
  America's main job is to protect its citizens/residents from lead in imported turmeric, not to be a global crusader in wiping out all lead in all turmeric everywhere.
- ericmay 1y ago
  > The agency of Americans is also contributing to this reccuring. I’m going to push back very, very hard on ascribing any sort of blame on anyone other than those who are committing these acts. Least of all the American taxpayer, regardless of whether or not dismantling USAID is a good idea. If the rest of the world is so helpless that all hope depends on Americans to solve even problems such as this and it’s our fault for not doing so, then I don’t want to hear a peep about us taking any other actions in the world that we deem just. You can’t have it both ways.
  - 1y ago
mathgradthrow 1y ago
in the article it asserts that the farmers didn't know the effects of lead chromate on human health, they were just "expanding their business". I guess since it's just fraud and negligence, we should forgive it?
- wtcactus 1y ago
  Well, it’s more about the origin of the farmers than anything else. If they where American or European farmers, you can be sure NPR would mark them as the villains of this story.
  - datavirtue 1y ago
    Yeah, NPR is on a rapid course to becoming the third leg to FOX and CNN.

aaron695 1y ago

[dead]

liveoneggs 1y ago

you mean like when those farmers in china poisoned baby formula? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

shermantanktop 1y ago

That's a BS detection step that I apply to anecdotes: who lacks agency in this story?

Amezarak 1y ago

I don't think the NPR reporter is deliberately spinning the story. I think a lot of people don't really believe that other people are really different from them. The reporter would never knowingly poison people for money, so it's not comprehensible to them that lots of people in the world just don't care whether they do or not. The only reason in their minds that people would do such a thing are economic desperation combined with ignorance; if those two factors are gone, they really believe the problem has been forever solved.

a123b456c 1y ago
I have numerous experiences being quoted by NPR reporters. I have regularly observed them to deliberately frame stories to interest their audience (as I believe they should). In this case, if the reporter claims poisoning without sufficient evidence, the reporter and their employer will be attacked. If the reporter provides no plausible explanation, the story will be found wanting.
- Amezarak 1y ago
  I think actively claiming poisoning is too far. You don't have to do that to not present the story as Problem Solved with a neat little bow tied; I just think like GP there's probably not a really serious evaluation of the underlying issues that led us here, and it's going to crop up again and again in different ways, maybe not tumeric explicitly if monitoring continues. FWIW I've also been quoted by reporters before, and was really upset. They framed what I was saying to mean exactly the opposite of what I was saying, I assume because it fit the story better - I am 100% certain they understood me at the time, because the full context of my remarks made it very clear and we had a long conversation. So I don't lend much credence anymore to things like "what did the people interviewed in this story actually think about anything."
kayodelycaon 1y ago
In the course of history, it wasn’t that long ago when people brought snacks to an execution. That’s a little hard to wrap your head around.
- umeshunni 1y ago
  By it wasn't that long ago, you mean 10 years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deera_Square https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deera_Square
phendrenad2 1y ago
I dunno, NPR seems perfectly capable of reporting on crimes in general.

eitally 1y ago

Indeed. It reminds me very much of this ("toxic tofu" in Indonesia): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPyRAcdZHDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPyRAcdZHDo https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/14/world/asia/indonesia-tofu-dioxin-plastic.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/14/world/asia/indonesia-tofu...

abeppu 1y ago

> But if you ascribe even the slightest but of agency to any of the non-Americans involved, you have to wonder if this problem will come back. From the article: > And recently they are celebrating some big news on the lead fighting front: This week, UNICEF and the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) announced a new $150 million initiative to combat lead poisoning. Americans have disassembled USAID. The agency of Americans is also contributing to this reccuring.

wtcactus 1y ago
What about holding the people that do the crime accountable instead of the ones being continuously extorted into giving their money so that someone else doesn’t do something stupid and/or criminal?
amy214 1y ago
>Americans have disassembled USAID. The agency of Americans is also contributing to this reccuring. I didn't realize all non-American societies were doomed to terrible things if not for the pleasure of America's free handouts' interfering
kazinator 1y ago
America's main job is to protect its citizens/residents from lead in imported turmeric, not to be a global crusader in wiping out all lead in all turmeric everywhere.
ericmay 1y ago
> The agency of Americans is also contributing to this reccuring. I’m going to push back very, very hard on ascribing any sort of blame on anyone other than those who are committing these acts. Least of all the American taxpayer, regardless of whether or not dismantling USAID is a good idea. If the rest of the world is so helpless that all hope depends on Americans to solve even problems such as this and it’s our fault for not doing so, then I don’t want to hear a peep about us taking any other actions in the world that we deem just. You can’t have it both ways.
- 1y ago

mathgradthrow 1y ago

in the article it asserts that the farmers didn't know the effects of lead chromate on human health, they were just "expanding their business". I guess since it's just fraud and negligence, we should forgive it?

wtcactus 1y ago
Well, it’s more about the origin of the farmers than anything else. If they where American or European farmers, you can be sure NPR would mark them as the villains of this story.
- datavirtue 1y ago
  Yeah, NPR is on a rapid course to becoming the third leg to FOX and CNN.