4 ms·

Yeah, but the opposite isn't true, my national origin can be Swedish but I can reside in Spain, so banning by residency isn't banning by national origin, seems

by diggan 1y ago

Yeah, but the opposite isn't true, my national origin can be Swedish but I can reside in Spain, so banning by residency isn't banning by national origin, seems like a way to ban foreigners (non-residents). Edit: Actually wait > since if your national origin is the US you're automatically a resident This isn't true is it? If you're born in the US but you live (100% of the time) elsewhere, you're no longer a resident, are you?

BobaFloutist 1y ago
Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident." Actually, you fully can discriminate for or against local or state residency. I think national residence would be harder, though to be fair you're absolutely able to not hire non-residents. Frankly the biggest barrier might be that as actual residents would get mad if you asked for proof, and if you didn't test everyone it would likely be an open-and-shut racial (or maybe national origin if you tested on the basis of accent) case.
- diggan 1y ago
  > Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident." That sounds like a immigration/social hierarchy/importance rather than something that matters in discrimination contexts, what exactly you mean with "higher status"? If a bar bans non-US residents, if a US-citizen+Spanish-residency tries to enter, then it shouldn't matter if they're US citizens or not, because the criteria is residency, not citizenship. Or is there like a priority/order for OK/not OK discrimination criteria?
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    Now that I think about it a better quibble is that you probably can't get around anti-discrimination laws by posting a sign that says "No Canadians or Americans that have spent too long in Canada."
    - diggan 1y ago
      As I understand it, it'd be illegal even with just "No Canadians" because that's a "national origin" right? Instead you'd post "No Canadian Residents" and you'd be in the clear :)
      - BobaFloutist 1y ago
        But no Canadian residents is equivalent to what I put above, and the actual impact of the discrimination is the problem, not the wording.
        diggan 1y ago
        > But no Canadian residents is equivalent to what I put above No? "No Canadians" is ambiguous enough that it could mean citizenship, residency, country you were born in, country you identify most with and so on. "Canadian Residents" isn't ambiguous (you either have residency or not), and also doesn't seem to be protected at all, only national origin is.

by diggan 1y ago

BobaFloutist 1y ago

Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident." Actually, you fully can discriminate for or against local or state residency. I think national residence would be harder, though to be fair you're absolutely able to not hire non-residents. Frankly the biggest barrier might be that as actual residents would get mad if you asked for proof, and if you didn't test everyone it would likely be an open-and-shut racial (or maybe national origin if you tested on the basis of accent) case.

diggan 1y ago
> Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident." That sounds like a immigration/social hierarchy/importance rather than something that matters in discrimination contexts, what exactly you mean with "higher status"? If a bar bans non-US residents, if a US-citizen+Spanish-residency tries to enter, then it shouldn't matter if they're US citizens or not, because the criteria is residency, not citizenship. Or is there like a priority/order for OK/not OK discrimination criteria?
- BobaFloutist 1y ago
  Now that I think about it a better quibble is that you probably can't get around anti-discrimination laws by posting a sign that says "No Canadians or Americans that have spent too long in Canada."
  - diggan 1y ago
    As I understand it, it'd be illegal even with just "No Canadians" because that's a "national origin" right? Instead you'd post "No Canadian Residents" and you'd be in the clear :)
    - BobaFloutist 1y ago
      But no Canadian residents is equivalent to what I put above, and the actual impact of the discrimination is the problem, not the wording.
      - diggan 1y ago
        > But no Canadian residents is equivalent to what I put above No? "No Canadians" is ambiguous enough that it could mean citizenship, residency, country you were born in, country you identify most with and so on. "Canadian Residents" isn't ambiguous (you either have residency or not), and also doesn't seem to be protected at all, only national origin is.