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Fascinating. Do you have references for the motives/biases of the PO leadership?

by hnfong 1y ago

jordanb 1y ago
My entry-point was listening to this podcast, it's pretty long but it goes into the fact that the purpose of horizon was to detect fraud and reduce shrinkage, that the leadership and their consultants were coming up with outsized estimates for the amount of fraud and using that as financial justification for the project. They also talk about postmaster's motivations for buying a franchise and how sitting behind a retail desk in a small town with a modest but steady income is actually one of the best outcomes available to the type of working-class Briton who was buying the franchise. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jf7j https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jf7j
- amiga386 1y ago
  I haven't listened to the podcast, but I think you may be oversimplifying. The origin of Horizon is that ICL won the tender for a project to computerise the UK's benefits payment system -- replacing giro books (like cheque books) with smart cards (like bank cards): https://inews.co.uk/news/post-office-warned-fujitsu-horizon-scandal-2848603 https://inews.co.uk/news/post-office-warned-fujitsu-horizon-... https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199899/cmselect/cmtrdind/530/53002.htm https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199899/cmselect/cmtr... Sure, it was also expected to detect fraud, but overall it was a "modernising" project. The project failed disastrously because ICL were completely incompetent at building an accounting system, the system regularly made huge mistakes, and the incoming government scrapped it. ICL was nonetheless still very chummy with government, as it was concieved of by 1960s British politicians who basically wanted a UK version of IBM because they didn't want Americans being in control of all the UK's computer systems. ICL used to operate mainframes and supply "computer terminals" to government and such, which is why they needed a lot of equipment from Fujitsu, which is why Fujitsu decided to buy them. ICL/Fujitsu still kept the contract to computerize Post Office accounting more generally -- Horizon. Post Offices could literally have pen-and-paper accounting until this! Yes, the project was also meant to look for fraud and shrinkage, but at its heart it was there to modernise, centralise and reduce costs. If only it wasn't written by incompetent morons who keep winning contracts because they're sweet with government.

Fascinating. Do you have references for the motives/biases of the PO leadership?

by hnfong 1y ago

Fascinating. Do you have references for the motives/biases of the PO leadership?

My entry-point was listening to this podcast, it's pretty long but it goes into the fact that the purpose of horizon was to detect fraud and reduce shrinkage, that the leadership and their consultants were coming up with outsized estimates for the amount of fraud and using that as financial justification for the project. They also talk about postmaster's motivations for buying a franchise and how sitting behind a retail desk in a small town with a modest but steady income is actually one of the best outcomes available to the type of working-class Briton who was buying the franchise. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jf7j https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jf7j

amiga386 1y ago
I haven't listened to the podcast, but I think you may be oversimplifying. The origin of Horizon is that ICL won the tender for a project to computerise the UK's benefits payment system -- replacing giro books (like cheque books) with smart cards (like bank cards): https://inews.co.uk/news/post-office-warned-fujitsu-horizon-scandal-2848603 https://inews.co.uk/news/post-office-warned-fujitsu-horizon-... https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199899/cmselect/cmtrdind/530/53002.htm https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199899/cmselect/cmtr... Sure, it was also expected to detect fraud, but overall it was a "modernising" project. The project failed disastrously because ICL were completely incompetent at building an accounting system, the system regularly made huge mistakes, and the incoming government scrapped it. ICL was nonetheless still very chummy with government, as it was concieved of by 1960s British politicians who basically wanted a UK version of IBM because they didn't want Americans being in control of all the UK's computer systems. ICL used to operate mainframes and supply "computer terminals" to government and such, which is why they needed a lot of equipment from Fujitsu, which is why Fujitsu decided to buy them. ICL/Fujitsu still kept the contract to computerize Post Office accounting more generally -- Horizon. Post Offices could literally have pen-and-paper accounting until this! Yes, the project was also meant to look for fraud and shrinkage, but at its heart it was there to modernise, centralise and reduce costs. If only it wasn't written by incompetent morons who keep winning contracts because they're sweet with government.