3 ms·

> That's lawsuit city Aren't private businesses in the US allowed to deny access to their premises for any reasons? Seems like a weird thing to get sued over,

by diggan 1y ago

> That's lawsuit city Aren't private businesses in the US allowed to deny access to their premises for any reasons? Seems like a weird thing to get sued over, I think in most places if you own the local, you get to decide who goes there, unless it's a place for government or similar.

VWWHFSfQ 1y ago
> deny access to their premises for any reasons Definitely not. This kind of discrimination is explicitly prohibited by federal civil rights law (Civil Rights Act 1964). It protects people regardless of their national origin (in addition to their skin color).
- diggan 1y ago
  "National origin" is what country you are born in right? So banning non-US residents would be OK it seems?
HelloMcFly 1y ago
You may deny entry based on your own criteria provided you are not discriminating on race, color, religion, national origin, disability status, veteran status, age (more wiggle room here) or other state-specific traits (sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, marital status, etc.). I don't think there's any place in America that would be illegal to bar entry based on the presence of tattoos.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- keysdev 1y ago
  But no shoes, no shirt, no service is quite common.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - raydev 1y ago
    Sure, but you can instantly go put on some shoes and a shirt if necessary.
- diggan 1y ago
  So it would be legal to bar non-US residents then? "Residency" seems different from all the criteria's you listed.
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    Residency inherently includes national origin, since if your national origin is the US you're automatically a resident.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - diggan 1y ago
      Yeah, but the opposite isn't true, my national origin can be Swedish but I can reside in Spain, so banning by residency isn't banning by national origin, seems like a way to ban foreigners (non-residents). Edit: Actually wait > since if your national origin is the US you're automatically a resident This isn't true is it? If you're born in the US but you live (100% of the time) elsewhere, you're no longer a resident, are you?
      - BobaFloutist 1y ago
        Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident." Actually, you fully can discriminate for or against local or state residency. I think national residence would be harder, though to be fair you're absolutely able to not hire non-residents. Frankly the biggest barrier might be that as actual residents would get mad if you asked for proof, and if you didn't test everyone it would likely be an open-and-shut racial (or maybe national origin if you tested on the basis of accent) case.
        diggan 1y ago
        > Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident." That sounds like a immigration/social hierarchy/importance rather than something that matters in discrimination contexts, what exactly you mean with "higher status"? If a bar bans non-US residents, if a US-citizen+Spanish-residency tries to enter, then it shouldn't matter if they're US citizens or not, because the criteria is residency, not citizenship. Or is there like a priority/order for OK/not OK discrimination criteria?
deaddodo 1y ago
You can deny entry on a non-discriminatory basis. E.g., a bar can kick out an individual Black American for being a nuisance or otherwise troublesome, they can't kick out a black guy for wearing blue (unless it's a blanket ban and reasonable, such as it being a theme bar) or being black. This is why the signs are always phrased as "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone/any person". As with most things though, this is just the minimum federal regulation and states will handle how far they take it differently. There are jurisdictions that wouldn't touch a "no tattoos" policy with a ten-foot pole at the risk of a lawsuit. While there are others that are more lax.
anarticle 1y ago
Yes! I was a bouncer for a while here in Philadelphia, and our bar/dancefloor had a rule on St. Patricks day: If you're wearing any green, you can't come in. Worked great, never had any problems on St. Patricks day. "You can go to any other bar in the city, just not this one."

by diggan 1y ago

VWWHFSfQ 1y ago

> deny access to their premises for any reasons Definitely not. This kind of discrimination is explicitly prohibited by federal civil rights law (Civil Rights Act 1964). It protects people regardless of their national origin (in addition to their skin color).

diggan 1y ago
"National origin" is what country you are born in right? So banning non-US residents would be OK it seems?

HelloMcFly 1y ago

You may deny entry based on your own criteria provided you are not discriminating on race, color, religion, national origin, disability status, veteran status, age (more wiggle room here) or other state-specific traits (sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, marital status, etc.). I don't think there's any place in America that would be illegal to bar entry based on the presence of tattoos.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
keysdev 1y ago
But no shoes, no shirt, no service is quite common.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- raydev 1y ago
  Sure, but you can instantly go put on some shoes and a shirt if necessary.
diggan 1y ago
So it would be legal to bar non-US residents then? "Residency" seems different from all the criteria's you listed.
- BobaFloutist 1y ago
  Residency inherently includes national origin, since if your national origin is the US you're automatically a resident.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - diggan 1y ago
    Yeah, but the opposite isn't true, my national origin can be Swedish but I can reside in Spain, so banning by residency isn't banning by national origin, seems like a way to ban foreigners (non-residents). Edit: Actually wait > since if your national origin is the US you're automatically a resident This isn't true is it? If you're born in the US but you live (100% of the time) elsewhere, you're no longer a resident, are you?
    - BobaFloutist 1y ago
      Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident." Actually, you fully can discriminate for or against local or state residency. I think national residence would be harder, though to be fair you're absolutely able to not hire non-residents. Frankly the biggest barrier might be that as actual residents would get mad if you asked for proof, and if you didn't test everyone it would likely be an open-and-shut racial (or maybe national origin if you tested on the basis of accent) case.
      - diggan 1y ago
        > Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident." That sounds like a immigration/social hierarchy/importance rather than something that matters in discrimination contexts, what exactly you mean with "higher status"? If a bar bans non-US residents, if a US-citizen+Spanish-residency tries to enter, then it shouldn't matter if they're US citizens or not, because the criteria is residency, not citizenship. Or is there like a priority/order for OK/not OK discrimination criteria?

deaddodo 1y ago

You can deny entry on a non-discriminatory basis. E.g., a bar can kick out an individual Black American for being a nuisance or otherwise troublesome, they can't kick out a black guy for wearing blue (unless it's a blanket ban and reasonable, such as it being a theme bar) or being black. This is why the signs are always phrased as "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone/any person". As with most things though, this is just the minimum federal regulation and states will handle how far they take it differently. There are jurisdictions that wouldn't touch a "no tattoos" policy with a ten-foot pole at the risk of a lawsuit. While there are others that are more lax.

anarticle 1y ago

Yes! I was a bouncer for a while here in Philadelphia, and our bar/dancefloor had a rule on St. Patricks day: If you're wearing any green, you can't come in. Worked great, never had any problems on St. Patricks day. "You can go to any other bar in the city, just not this one."