3 ms·

This topic pops up on HN a lot so question to people that follow this topic: maybe someone know if there's study or argument about linking "financialization" of

This topic pops up on HN a lot so question to people that follow this topic: maybe someone know if there's study or argument about linking "financialization" of economy to fertility rate? These day we take for granted that we can "save" and "grow" money through investment. Almost everyone does it more or less, through pension saving or simply investing. Yet this hasn't always been the case for humanity. Take for example: a hunter that just scored big game (deer). He can't possibly eat it all or process it all before it rots. What does he do? He shares it to his tribes men, with the implicit agreement that when they also score, they'll share back. Investing (for future) is favors and personal agreements. In this, raising a child (to become a good hunter, a skill you can share) is included. These days you can just invest any surplus productivity(wealth) directly in to sophisticated financial markets. The fact that availability of services purchaseable (Healthcare and elderly care) increased, have made the "just invest surplus productivity to your future savings" a better alternative than investing it to a child. A child today is financially equivalent to a pet. Cost a lot, you can't expect (or force) much in return. It's probably not that "fun" either, for many. (especially in East Asia; so much more fun entertainment than raising a kid!) I'm in my mid 30s soon and most (college educated) women around me usually struggle with the child or not question but the ones doing financially well often land on "eh I'll just save the money I have to spend on kids on entertainment and pension saving. It will be fine" as a option (the anxious ones freeze their eggs). As a hypothetical thought scenario: if financial system collapsed (no more pension saving, or money simply growths with investment) would fertility rate go up? At the basic level, even the idea of growing money to hedge for the deteriorating health at old age doesn't even make sense. In a aging population, the supply (young, working) and demand (old, requiring care) might be so flipped, whatever gain you had will evaporate in price increase. Unless immigration or other unpopular policies.

Balgair 1y ago
> At the basic level, even the idea of growing money to hedge for the deteriorating health at old age doesn't even make sense. In a aging population, the supply (young, working) and demand (old, requiring care) might be so flipped, whatever gain you had will evaporate in price increase. Unless immigration or other unpopular policies. I've been through this with an elderly relative. She had a very good pension that paid for ~$10k/mo memory care for ~7 years before she passed in her 90s. About $850k total over the run at that one facility, very likely over $1M for the whole retirement. Even with that quality of medical care, we were over there helping her for every little thing. The facility was great, the people were too. But the legal landscape was such that every fall or trip was an ER visit or we had to come over. I get it, but it's exhausting as a non-primary caregiver. When people say that they'll skip kids and just make a ton of money and that will take care of them when they are enfeebled, I don't think they understand reality. No one, no matter how much you pay them, is going to take care of you when you're blind and have lost your marbles and it's 3am and you can't get up. Unless they love you. Only love will go through that long sad ordeal and only love is going to give you that 'kind' death. Even then, it's a total mess. Money is not going to save you or let you exit stage right on your terms. Do not delude yourself into thinking that.
- rickydroll 1y ago
  OTOH, my partner has a kid with disabling autism. He will never live alone and cannot survive without some caregiver support for basic needs like shopping for food or handling money. So instead of having children to care for you as you age, you spend the rest of your life caring for a child who will never be independent, and you beat yourself up for not finding the magic something that would have enabled the child to live an independent life. yea, kids are such a joy
navane 1y ago
Interesting. Acoup.blog had an unrelated post about this. How in certain societies where you can't save up capital (because all things worth were perishable goods), windfalls were instead gifted to the near community, creating goodwill for when bad times hit. In a similar way, kids could be windfalls turned into future safety nets, but now has to compete with savings.

Balgair 1y ago

> At the basic level, even the idea of growing money to hedge for the deteriorating health at old age doesn't even make sense. In a aging population, the supply (young, working) and demand (old, requiring care) might be so flipped, whatever gain you had will evaporate in price increase. Unless immigration or other unpopular policies. I've been through this with an elderly relative. She had a very good pension that paid for ~$10k/mo memory care for ~7 years before she passed in her 90s. About $850k total over the run at that one facility, very likely over $1M for the whole retirement. Even with that quality of medical care, we were over there helping her for every little thing. The facility was great, the people were too. But the legal landscape was such that every fall or trip was an ER visit or we had to come over. I get it, but it's exhausting as a non-primary caregiver. When people say that they'll skip kids and just make a ton of money and that will take care of them when they are enfeebled, I don't think they understand reality. No one, no matter how much you pay them, is going to take care of you when you're blind and have lost your marbles and it's 3am and you can't get up. Unless they love you. Only love will go through that long sad ordeal and only love is going to give you that 'kind' death. Even then, it's a total mess. Money is not going to save you or let you exit stage right on your terms. Do not delude yourself into thinking that.

rickydroll 1y ago
OTOH, my partner has a kid with disabling autism. He will never live alone and cannot survive without some caregiver support for basic needs like shopping for food or handling money. So instead of having children to care for you as you age, you spend the rest of your life caring for a child who will never be independent, and you beat yourself up for not finding the magic something that would have enabled the child to live an independent life. yea, kids are such a joy

navane 1y ago

Interesting. Acoup.blog had an unrelated post about this. How in certain societies where you can't save up capital (because all things worth were perishable goods), windfalls were instead gifted to the near community, creating goodwill for when bad times hit. In a similar way, kids could be windfalls turned into future safety nets, but now has to compete with savings.