5 ms·

Is anyone else bothered by hyperspecific products like this? 95% of what it does can also be done by scissors for 5% of the price and 10x the lifespan.

tptacek 1y ago
Not at all; you've missed the point. Everyone knows you can cut a box with scissors. The point is that you can't cut a board with scissors. This is a basic woodworking skill, and I think it's great if you can come up with a way to safely get kids accustomed to what those tools can do.
- michaelt 1y ago
  Are there all that many parents who want to teach their kid woodworking, but can't use the classic teaching method of taking them to the workshop and handing them a coping saw under careful supervision? I mean, I'm sure there's a handful of parents who value woodworking skills but do no woodworking themselves - but are there enough to support a whole product category of $250 cardboard tools?
  - tptacek 1y ago
    I mean, it's a specialized $250 toy, I'm sure it has a very narrow audience! I'm just saying: it's not a scissor replacement.
  - schwartzworld 1y ago
    I actually think this isn’t really an “at home” toy. A couple of these in an elementary classroom or a library or even a community maker space, make a lot of sense, since the building material is basically free.
  - ckozlowski 1y ago
    Depends on the age. I've had my 4yo in my garage with me at times. And while he's "helped" me with a few things, it generally consists of me holding the tool with his hands on the handle as well. His strength, dexterity, and simply small size prevents him from really getting much out of it other than a sense of participation. Valuable, but he's not learning anything. When he's older and bigger, then using real tools will be more practical, and we can using the real thing. The risk will be more manageable then. At this stage however, this chompsaw looks appealing. Instead of disappointing him when he wants to drive and having to diplomatically explain that he lacks the strength and coordination to use the actual tool, I can just hand him this. Give a bit of instruction, and then let him experiment. That feeling of "hey, I'm doing this myself" is exciting to him and gives him a sense of accomplishment. Long story short, I see this as a product aimed at a younger audience who aren't old enough to take the lead (with guidance) in the workshop yet, but want the feeling of doing it themselves in a safe way. I like it. $250 though. Ooof.
    - LargeWu 1y ago
      Yeah, the price is certainly a deterrent. My kids are tweens/early teens, almost aging out, and while they still like making things with cardboard, not sure I can justify that kind of investment for what is really a relatively simple tool. I mean, my 3D printer barely cost more than that, and that's a high-tech precision machine.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Retr0id 1y ago
Cutting cardboard in straight lines with scissors is easy, but cutting convex curves other shapes is really not, especially if you want to avoid bending it and collapsing the corrugation. Personally I use a knife, but obviously that isn't suitable for very young kids (not hugely safe for me either lol, I almost cut the end of my thumb off not too long ago...)
- parpfish 1y ago
  If convex curves are too hard, just make a concave curve and keep the other side.
  - xattt 1y ago
    I am not sure if this is board stretcher-level pranking or actual advice. Bravo!
  - WillAdams 1y ago
    The problem of course is that often one side of the curve is mangled/distorted from fitting the tool into it --- guess which one it usually is?
    - junga 1y ago
      It's always the side you want to keep of course.
- istjohn 1y ago
  Convex curves can be approximated by a series of straight cuts tangent to the desired arc. It's concave curves that are difficult.
  - Retr0id 1y ago
    Ah yeah, I meant to say concave.
jamestimmins 1y ago
I like it from the standpoint of kids not being afraid of power tools. Plenty of adults would never do woodworking because the tools seem too scary. Teaching kids that power tools don't need to be scary as long as they're used safely is a worthwhile output on its own IMO.
- mathiaspoint 1y ago
  You don't need power tools for most of woodworking anyway. That's a ridiculous excuse to avoid it. I've built furniture and framed buildings almost entirely with hand tools.
  - gerdesj 1y ago
    Quite right until you discover a router ...
    - MarkMarine 1y ago
      Router is a very dangerous tool, and it will steal from you the joy of creating profiles by hand with moulding planes, one of the most rewarding things in woodworking. This book is a great guide: https://lostartpress.com/products/mouldings-in-practice?srsltid=AfmBOor2bkkSNlMPy969Hl9ZCg7ymM7kMxDJVUZUHY0_18zAvarm3ckk https://lostartpress.com/products/mouldings-in-practice?srsl... You can get by quite well with a rabbit plane and 3/8" hollow + round and 5/8" hollow + round places. I prefer the HNT Gordon Planes, beautiful hand made planes from australia: https://www.heartwoodtools.com/hntgordon/hollow-and-round-plane https://www.heartwoodtools.com/hntgordon/hollow-and-round-pl...
      - IAmBroom 1y ago
        Yet you still probably wear clothing made by industrial looms, using machine-spun thread, instead of retting your own flax in a pond... A bit half-assed, wouldn't you say?
        1y ago
preinheimer 1y ago
It is not easy for children to cut cardboard with scissors. I'd say that remains true at least until age 10. Some younger may be able to manage a small amount of cutting but would get tired quickly. I volunteer with scouts, kids aged 5-8. We ran a cardboard based activity with the makedo stuff. We tried to supplement with scissors, they were not effective.
- dylan604 1y ago
  Also, scissors tend to crush cardboard at the cut. This looks like it is not doing that.
GuB-42 1y ago
Cutting thick cardboard with scissors is a good way to hurt yourself. You need some strength and a sharp blade to cut cardboard with scissors, for a child, it can mean going full force. And the more strength you use, the less control you have, increasing the chance of hurting yourself. That's also the reason why dull knives are considered dangerous. Scissors are for paper, not cardboard. This tool looks much more controllable, which means it is safer, even before considering the intrinsic safety of the mechanism, more precise, and more fun to use.
- mmastrac 1y ago
  I remember the feeling of bruising my joints with scissors as a kid.
  - labster 1y ago
    See, it builds character! Kids get really dull scissors, shared with other kids. Of course they’re difficult to use.
    - TeMPOraL 1y ago
      Doubly so if you're left-handed. I thought left-handed scissors are some bullshit sales tactic to eke out some extra cash out of clueless people, until I saw someone on HN explain why "handedness" of scissors is a thing - and then I finally connected the dots and realized why my (then) 4yo daughter is struggling with scissor crafts so much. Got her a pair of left-handed scissors and, lo and behold, her cutting improved on the spot. (We then bought some more and gifted them to her kindergarten, to make sure she and other left-handed kids have a pair when needed, because the idea was new even to some of the personnel there.)
      - Freak_NL 1y ago
        My house has a number of left-hand scissors for me and my wife, but only since half a decade or so. For most of our lives right-handed scissors dominated, and no one ever seemed to care in schools etc., whereas we did get left-handed fountain pens at some point. My son, fortunately for him, is right-handed. I have no doubt that this saves him a lot of frustration. If you are left-handed and reading this, get yourself some nice left-handed scissors. Trust me.
2muchcoffeeman 1y ago
The problem with this kind of thinking is that it doesn’t take into account how annoying other methods can be. Or how tools open up possibilities. I can beat 10 egg whites by hand. I’ve done it several times. But it sucks. A handheld electric beater is fairly cheap and way better. You know what’s even better? A stand mixer that cost several hundred dollars. Is it worth it? If you bake a lot it’s worth it. This biggest problem with this kids toy is that it’s for kids and cost ~$250. It’s really an adult toy or something for the classroom. If it was half the price, I’d pick one up, have bit of fun and on sell it or donate to other families.
xdennis 1y ago
Agreed. It's like that old Russia-America joke. When they go to space they find out pens don't work because of gravity. Americans spend millions developing a pen which works without gravity while the Russians use a pencil. I don't like Russians, but it's so stereotypically American to over-engineer a complicated alternative to scissors.
- Marazan 1y ago
  And just like the old joke your are missing important practicalities. Pencils in space were terrible. Small chunks of carbon absorber of and getting in electrics was bad. Pens were a huge improvement. Likewise I can't only presume you haven't ever cut large quantities of corrugated cardboard with scissors or ever seen a child struggle with the task. This device looks to be a massive utility increase for cardboard cutting for children.
- bluGill 1y ago
  It wasn't the Americans who spent millions. It was a single American: Paul C. Fisher who spent it own money because he thought Astronauts should have a good pen to use in space. His pen was so much better than the pencils used by both the Americans and Russians that both immediately switched to using his pens.
  - cjbgkagh 1y ago
    A few extra important points, the NASA space pen was cancelled due to cost overruns and when they finally purchased the Fisher pens it was at normal retail prices. And grease pencils were an option, though not as good as pens.
cjbgkagh 1y ago
I’m pretty sure a nibbler will not wear out anywhere as quickly as scissors. It can allow young children to work independently so you’d have to factor in cost of supervision with the scissors. Main problem with it is that it is more expensive than many real nibblers designed to cut steel, I guess for now that it is niche and designed for classroom use. Mass market it and I think it could easily come down to $50.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
conductr 1y ago
Not at all bothered by this, this is very unique. Scissor skills are important but more so for paper which has limitations versus cardboard. I use a lot of power tools and my kid watches me kind of bored, unable to participate. I could easily see him feeling like we were 'working together' if I had one of these setup in my shop. He also likes to create all kinds of stuff and I'd be interested to see what he'd come up with. But, what does bother me is the price, $250 seems steep.

tptacek 1y ago

Not at all; you've missed the point. Everyone knows you can cut a box with scissors. The point is that you can't cut a board with scissors. This is a basic woodworking skill, and I think it's great if you can come up with a way to safely get kids accustomed to what those tools can do.

michaelt 1y ago
Are there all that many parents who want to teach their kid woodworking, but can't use the classic teaching method of taking them to the workshop and handing them a coping saw under careful supervision? I mean, I'm sure there's a handful of parents who value woodworking skills but do no woodworking themselves - but are there enough to support a whole product category of $250 cardboard tools?
- tptacek 1y ago
  I mean, it's a specialized $250 toy, I'm sure it has a very narrow audience! I'm just saying: it's not a scissor replacement.
- schwartzworld 1y ago
  I actually think this isn’t really an “at home” toy. A couple of these in an elementary classroom or a library or even a community maker space, make a lot of sense, since the building material is basically free.
- ckozlowski 1y ago
  Depends on the age. I've had my 4yo in my garage with me at times. And while he's "helped" me with a few things, it generally consists of me holding the tool with his hands on the handle as well. His strength, dexterity, and simply small size prevents him from really getting much out of it other than a sense of participation. Valuable, but he's not learning anything. When he's older and bigger, then using real tools will be more practical, and we can using the real thing. The risk will be more manageable then. At this stage however, this chompsaw looks appealing. Instead of disappointing him when he wants to drive and having to diplomatically explain that he lacks the strength and coordination to use the actual tool, I can just hand him this. Give a bit of instruction, and then let him experiment. That feeling of "hey, I'm doing this myself" is exciting to him and gives him a sense of accomplishment. Long story short, I see this as a product aimed at a younger audience who aren't old enough to take the lead (with guidance) in the workshop yet, but want the feeling of doing it themselves in a safe way. I like it. $250 though. Ooof.
  - LargeWu 1y ago
    Yeah, the price is certainly a deterrent. My kids are tweens/early teens, almost aging out, and while they still like making things with cardboard, not sure I can justify that kind of investment for what is really a relatively simple tool. I mean, my 3D printer barely cost more than that, and that's a high-tech precision machine.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

Retr0id 1y ago

Cutting cardboard in straight lines with scissors is easy, but cutting convex curves other shapes is really not, especially if you want to avoid bending it and collapsing the corrugation. Personally I use a knife, but obviously that isn't suitable for very young kids (not hugely safe for me either lol, I almost cut the end of my thumb off not too long ago...)

parpfish 1y ago
If convex curves are too hard, just make a concave curve and keep the other side.
- xattt 1y ago
  I am not sure if this is board stretcher-level pranking or actual advice. Bravo!
- WillAdams 1y ago
  The problem of course is that often one side of the curve is mangled/distorted from fitting the tool into it --- guess which one it usually is?
  - junga 1y ago
    It's always the side you want to keep of course.
istjohn 1y ago
Convex curves can be approximated by a series of straight cuts tangent to the desired arc. It's concave curves that are difficult.
- Retr0id 1y ago
  Ah yeah, I meant to say concave.

jamestimmins 1y ago

I like it from the standpoint of kids not being afraid of power tools. Plenty of adults would never do woodworking because the tools seem too scary. Teaching kids that power tools don't need to be scary as long as they're used safely is a worthwhile output on its own IMO.

mathiaspoint 1y ago
You don't need power tools for most of woodworking anyway. That's a ridiculous excuse to avoid it. I've built furniture and framed buildings almost entirely with hand tools.
- gerdesj 1y ago
  Quite right until you discover a router ...
  - MarkMarine 1y ago
    Router is a very dangerous tool, and it will steal from you the joy of creating profiles by hand with moulding planes, one of the most rewarding things in woodworking. This book is a great guide: https://lostartpress.com/products/mouldings-in-practice?srsltid=AfmBOor2bkkSNlMPy969Hl9ZCg7ymM7kMxDJVUZUHY0_18zAvarm3ckk https://lostartpress.com/products/mouldings-in-practice?srsl... You can get by quite well with a rabbit plane and 3/8" hollow + round and 5/8" hollow + round places. I prefer the HNT Gordon Planes, beautiful hand made planes from australia: https://www.heartwoodtools.com/hntgordon/hollow-and-round-plane https://www.heartwoodtools.com/hntgordon/hollow-and-round-pl...
    - IAmBroom 1y ago
      Yet you still probably wear clothing made by industrial looms, using machine-spun thread, instead of retting your own flax in a pond... A bit half-assed, wouldn't you say?
      - 1y ago

preinheimer 1y ago

It is not easy for children to cut cardboard with scissors. I'd say that remains true at least until age 10. Some younger may be able to manage a small amount of cutting but would get tired quickly. I volunteer with scouts, kids aged 5-8. We ran a cardboard based activity with the makedo stuff. We tried to supplement with scissors, they were not effective.

dylan604 1y ago
Also, scissors tend to crush cardboard at the cut. This looks like it is not doing that.

GuB-42 1y ago

Cutting thick cardboard with scissors is a good way to hurt yourself. You need some strength and a sharp blade to cut cardboard with scissors, for a child, it can mean going full force. And the more strength you use, the less control you have, increasing the chance of hurting yourself. That's also the reason why dull knives are considered dangerous. Scissors are for paper, not cardboard. This tool looks much more controllable, which means it is safer, even before considering the intrinsic safety of the mechanism, more precise, and more fun to use.

mmastrac 1y ago
I remember the feeling of bruising my joints with scissors as a kid.
- labster 1y ago
  See, it builds character! Kids get really dull scissors, shared with other kids. Of course they’re difficult to use.
  - TeMPOraL 1y ago
    Doubly so if you're left-handed. I thought left-handed scissors are some bullshit sales tactic to eke out some extra cash out of clueless people, until I saw someone on HN explain why "handedness" of scissors is a thing - and then I finally connected the dots and realized why my (then) 4yo daughter is struggling with scissor crafts so much. Got her a pair of left-handed scissors and, lo and behold, her cutting improved on the spot. (We then bought some more and gifted them to her kindergarten, to make sure she and other left-handed kids have a pair when needed, because the idea was new even to some of the personnel there.)
    - Freak_NL 1y ago
      My house has a number of left-hand scissors for me and my wife, but only since half a decade or so. For most of our lives right-handed scissors dominated, and no one ever seemed to care in schools etc., whereas we did get left-handed fountain pens at some point. My son, fortunately for him, is right-handed. I have no doubt that this saves him a lot of frustration. If you are left-handed and reading this, get yourself some nice left-handed scissors. Trust me.

2muchcoffeeman 1y ago

The problem with this kind of thinking is that it doesn’t take into account how annoying other methods can be. Or how tools open up possibilities. I can beat 10 egg whites by hand. I’ve done it several times. But it sucks. A handheld electric beater is fairly cheap and way better. You know what’s even better? A stand mixer that cost several hundred dollars. Is it worth it? If you bake a lot it’s worth it. This biggest problem with this kids toy is that it’s for kids and cost ~$250. It’s really an adult toy or something for the classroom. If it was half the price, I’d pick one up, have bit of fun and on sell it or donate to other families.

xdennis 1y ago

Agreed. It's like that old Russia-America joke. When they go to space they find out pens don't work because of gravity. Americans spend millions developing a pen which works without gravity while the Russians use a pencil. I don't like Russians, but it's so stereotypically American to over-engineer a complicated alternative to scissors.

Marazan 1y ago
And just like the old joke your are missing important practicalities. Pencils in space were terrible. Small chunks of carbon absorber of and getting in electrics was bad. Pens were a huge improvement. Likewise I can't only presume you haven't ever cut large quantities of corrugated cardboard with scissors or ever seen a child struggle with the task. This device looks to be a massive utility increase for cardboard cutting for children.
bluGill 1y ago
It wasn't the Americans who spent millions. It was a single American: Paul C. Fisher who spent it own money because he thought Astronauts should have a good pen to use in space. His pen was so much better than the pencils used by both the Americans and Russians that both immediately switched to using his pens.
- cjbgkagh 1y ago
  A few extra important points, the NASA space pen was cancelled due to cost overruns and when they finally purchased the Fisher pens it was at normal retail prices. And grease pencils were an option, though not as good as pens.

cjbgkagh 1y ago

I’m pretty sure a nibbler will not wear out anywhere as quickly as scissors. It can allow young children to work independently so you’d have to factor in cost of supervision with the scissors. Main problem with it is that it is more expensive than many real nibblers designed to cut steel, I guess for now that it is niche and designed for classroom use. Mass market it and I think it could easily come down to $50.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

conductr 1y ago

Not at all bothered by this, this is very unique. Scissor skills are important but more so for paper which has limitations versus cardboard. I use a lot of power tools and my kid watches me kind of bored, unable to participate. I could easily see him feeling like we were 'working together' if I had one of these setup in my shop. He also likes to create all kinds of stuff and I'd be interested to see what he'd come up with. But, what does bother me is the price, $250 seems steep.