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The winning strategy in the previous US presidential election was to scream obvious lies blaming the immigrants, minorities, or opposition for any perceived sli

by mulmen 1y ago

The winning strategy in the previous US presidential election was to scream obvious lies blaming the immigrants, minorities, or opposition for any perceived slight. I think Orwell would find this all very familiar.

skinnymuch 1y ago
Isn’t Orwell a fed informant screwing over the left he claimed to be a part of? Can’t imagine he’d have good takes.
- mulmen 1y ago
  I didn’t say that he’d have a “take”. I said he’d find the climate familiar.
- pjc50 1y ago
  After he went to fight for the left in Catalonia, and had to flee Catalonia for being the wrong kind of Marxist, he believed that the best thing for the left was to keep out actual Stalinists in order to preserve freedom for socialism.
  - skinnymuch 1y ago
    Always funny when people not on the left talk about left-wing stuff. You’re not even part of the in-group.
    - ben_w 1y ago
      A former partner of mine is a literal communist; I forget which kind of communist exactly, but the Life Of Brian thing about them constantly splitting into even more niche groups and being more angry with the other lefty groups than they are with the political right, is 100% correct. There's a TV interview of her in the lead up to 2016 saying Trump would be better than Clinton. (Not that she liked Trump, that's different, just that she thought Clinton was worse). Still shares Demexit memes on FB, last I saw. Actual, literal, communist. Was part of the Socialist Worker's Party in the UK just when that exploded. Sooooo… who's the in-group?
      - skinnymuch 1y ago
        That name is a Trotskyist party name. In my humble opinion, left-wing means being against the hegemonic status quo. While you described a [European] stereotype/cliche. Politics and life is about your actions and output than what you nominally say out loud. “literal communist” is a label. Labels in isolation are not meant for serious convos. The actions of many Trots is and was to collaborate with the right, collaborate with western hegemony, attack the left, and trash actual existing leftism in the world. If your ex is a Nazi leftist (Strasserites etc) or a communist Zionist who loves apartheid you’d presumably understand how useless political labels can be and not wonder “Sooooo… who's the in-group?”
        ben_w 1y ago
        > In my humble opinion, left-wing means being against the hegemonic status quo. Originally it was literally just a seating plan. The left wing was the wing of the assembled politicians that were *physically on the left*. But if that's your definition, it would make capitalists the "left wing" of Cuba. > The actions of many Trots is and was to collaborate with the right, collaborate with western hegemony, attack the left, and trash actual existing leftism in the world. That far left is a circular firing squad, IMO. (I assume the same about the far right, except the bits of the far right that get in the news seem to have "circular firing squad" less metaphorically and more literally). But her actions were, and continue to be, doing everything in her power against the right wing. I think she even managed to get arrested for some protest or other against, IIRC, a US defence sector company. She happens to find the left of the Overton Window to be too right wing. As do I, but then, I moved from the UK to Germany to get away from the politicians and politics I can't stand, while she works in a trade union (in the UK) to support the workers who need help and make a positive difference. > If your ex is a Nazi leftist (Strasserites etc) or a communist Zionist who loves apartheid you’d presumably understand how useless political labels can be and not wonder “Sooooo… who's the in-group?” The British SWP, not the American SWP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(UK)#Anti-Nazi_League_and_Rock_against_Racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(UK)#A... The US one is reportedly pro-Israel, the UK one appears to be pro-Palestine: https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/swp-conference-2024-palestine-the-movement-and-revolutionary-politics/ https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/swp-conference-2024-pales...

by mulmen 1y ago

skinnymuch 1y ago

Isn’t Orwell a fed informant screwing over the left he claimed to be a part of? Can’t imagine he’d have good takes.

mulmen 1y ago
I didn’t say that he’d have a “take”. I said he’d find the climate familiar.
pjc50 1y ago
After he went to fight for the left in Catalonia, and had to flee Catalonia for being the wrong kind of Marxist, he believed that the best thing for the left was to keep out actual Stalinists in order to preserve freedom for socialism.
- skinnymuch 1y ago
  Always funny when people not on the left talk about left-wing stuff. You’re not even part of the in-group.
  - ben_w 1y ago
    A former partner of mine is a literal communist; I forget which kind of communist exactly, but the Life Of Brian thing about them constantly splitting into even more niche groups and being more angry with the other lefty groups than they are with the political right, is 100% correct. There's a TV interview of her in the lead up to 2016 saying Trump would be better than Clinton. (Not that she liked Trump, that's different, just that she thought Clinton was worse). Still shares Demexit memes on FB, last I saw. Actual, literal, communist. Was part of the Socialist Worker's Party in the UK just when that exploded. Sooooo… who's the in-group?
    - skinnymuch 1y ago
      That name is a Trotskyist party name. In my humble opinion, left-wing means being against the hegemonic status quo. While you described a [European] stereotype/cliche. Politics and life is about your actions and output than what you nominally say out loud. “literal communist” is a label. Labels in isolation are not meant for serious convos. The actions of many Trots is and was to collaborate with the right, collaborate with western hegemony, attack the left, and trash actual existing leftism in the world. If your ex is a Nazi leftist (Strasserites etc) or a communist Zionist who loves apartheid you’d presumably understand how useless political labels can be and not wonder “Sooooo… who's the in-group?”
      - ben_w 1y ago
        > In my humble opinion, left-wing means being against the hegemonic status quo. Originally it was literally just a seating plan. The left wing was the wing of the assembled politicians that were *physically on the left*. But if that's your definition, it would make capitalists the "left wing" of Cuba. > The actions of many Trots is and was to collaborate with the right, collaborate with western hegemony, attack the left, and trash actual existing leftism in the world. That far left is a circular firing squad, IMO. (I assume the same about the far right, except the bits of the far right that get in the news seem to have "circular firing squad" less metaphorically and more literally). But her actions were, and continue to be, doing everything in her power against the right wing. I think she even managed to get arrested for some protest or other against, IIRC, a US defence sector company. She happens to find the left of the Overton Window to be too right wing. As do I, but then, I moved from the UK to Germany to get away from the politicians and politics I can't stand, while she works in a trade union (in the UK) to support the workers who need help and make a positive difference. > If your ex is a Nazi leftist (Strasserites etc) or a communist Zionist who loves apartheid you’d presumably understand how useless political labels can be and not wonder “Sooooo… who's the in-group?” The British SWP, not the American SWP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(UK)#Anti-Nazi_League_and_Rock_against_Racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(UK)#A... The US one is reportedly pro-Israel, the UK one appears to be pro-Palestine: https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/swp-conference-2024-palestine-the-movement-and-revolutionary-politics/ https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/swp-conference-2024-pales...