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Unfortunately that's the goal. Your call and I respect that, but the current administration doesn't care, they want folks who they determine have the wrong poi

by duxup 1y ago

Unfortunately that's the goal. Your call and I respect that, but the current administration doesn't care, they want folks who they determine have the wrong point of view out. It's not just international students either, in their demand to Harvard the Trump administration demanded Harvard hire an outside group to survey Harvard staff and STUDENTS for "viewpoint diversity" and if they felt the diversity wasn't what the administration wanted, adjust staff and students to fit their view.

consumer451 1y ago
Federal anti-wrongthink enforcement. Everything they accused the other political side of doing, but 100x, and actually occurring in reality. Am I off-base here, or is this exactly what is happening?
- ThunderBee 1y ago
  This is basically what’s happening. The left opened the doors of academic and internet censorship and the right went ‘two can play that game!’ And kicked it wide open.
  - consumer451 1y ago
    > The left opened the doors of academic and internet censorship This was almost entirely an astroturfed campaign, which very effectively worked to whip people up into believing that they were being censored. Whenever it came up in the last few years in online conversations, I would ask "OK, so what are you being censored from saying?" Dozens, maybe a hundred times, of me asking that question, and it was nearly always crickets in response. What is the evidence of "the left" censoring academia? Whenever I dig into that, it's sloppy science, fringe theories, or straight up crackpots who couldn't get published in a journal, who then found popularity on youtube and podcasts doing the "I am being censored by Big Science" grift. If anyone would care to educate me on this, with evidence, I am here for it.
    - mandmandam 1y ago
      > What is the evidence of "the left" censoring academia? Here's a decent summary of how some of these censorship doors were opened: https://www.acsh.org/news/2024/02/25/covid-censorship-yes-biden-admin-suppressed-free-speech-during-pandemic-17678 https://www.acsh.org/news/2024/02/25/covid-censorship-yes-bi... There are also more vivid and recent examples, like barring universities from divestment from Israel (ie, 0]), which has happened in quite a few 'blue' states. Not to mention sending in armed police (ie, [1]) to break up peaceful anti-genocide protests. 0 - https://apnews.com/article/pennsylvania-israel-gaza-campus-protests-divestment-f8623deb88aba24bbe2c51a277dbf50f https://apnews.com/article/pennsylvania-israel-gaza-campus-p... 1 - https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-campus-protests-michigan-335904cf0ecb308a111eaa8bc86aeaf5 https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-campus-p...
      - spacemadness 1y ago
        I guess I must have hallucinated Trump threatening universities for anti genocide protests.
        mandmandam 1y ago
        You certainly seem to have hallucinated me saying anything about Trump.
    - maeil 1y ago
      To prevent premature downvotes, preface: this comment is not about the merits or demerits of the censorship, just that it took place. Whether it's good or bad was a different question, but it very much happened. One might say that it wasn't "the left" behind it, but if you'd take approval ratings of this censorship at the time across left/right, the latter would've been strongly opposed with the former mixed at best, if not broadly in favor. > If anyone would care to educate me on this, with evidence, I am here for it. Sure, happy to. I'll focus on the "internet" part. There was mass censorship on the major US social media platforms during COVID in the name of "preventing racist attacks against East-Asians". This is widely documented and admitted. Yishan Wong, ex-Reddit CEO: > Example: the "lab leak" theory (a controversial theory that is now probably true; I personally believe so) was "censored" at a certain time in the history of the pandemic That Meta and Twitter banned accounts for discussion of it is easily verifiable, Wikipedia also banned discussion of it. In Twitter's case, they even had a CCP figure on their board of directors during this time [1][2]. [1] - https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/3940206 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/3940206 [2] - https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/5/25/twitters-new-director-has-ccp-ties-deeper-than-you-know-fei-fei-li https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/5/25/twitters-new...
  - intended 1y ago
    The underlying forces have been at play since the 1970s, with a party policy to eschew bipartisanship and further charged by creating a dedicated party media. This setup has been constantly improved, to the point that Intelligent Design could successfully be held up along side the theory of evolution in American media - BEFORE the internet made itself felt. There is an asymmetric media failure at play, and the idea that “both sides” have the same faults, allows this failure to persist, because it drastically downplays the propaganda machine that operates on the right of the content economy. This is not an opinion, this is an open secret, as the people within the right wing ecosystem may as well be entirely captured. “Network Propaganda” does a better job of making the case, and should be required reading for most tech people interested in the market place of ideas.
  - UncleMeat 1y ago
    Opened what door? "If only students didn't complain when Milo Yiannopoulos got invited to campus, the Trump administration wouldn't be kicking out (or imprisoning) international students based on their political beliefs, rejecting papers about gay people from conferences at military academies, and imposing quotas for hiring reactionaries." Is that the claim?
- spacemadness 1y ago
  You know, it’s ok to call it fascism. I know everyone is having a hard time coping and is still waving their hands wildly to call it something else. And just because the undesirables aren’t all dealt with in the first year doesn’t mean it’s not a fascist takeover. It happens in stages. But that’s what it is. Trump suggested that the federal government take over NYC if Mamdani wins the election. Step by step they’re trying to make it happen. It’s fascism.
saghm 1y ago
> Unfortunately that's the goal. Your call and I respect that, but the current administration doesn't care, they want folks who they determine have the wrong point of view out. I agree with you, but I also think it would be unfortunate to frame this as somehow the responsibility of those who would be suffering the risk to come here to combat this. As much as I'd love for people to come just to stick it to the current government, I honestly think it's probably a better idea for them to prioritize their own safety and security over trying to fight against it. The rest of the world doesn't owe it to us to fix our mess for us.

by duxup 1y ago

consumer451 1y ago

Federal anti-wrongthink enforcement. Everything they accused the other political side of doing, but 100x, and actually occurring in reality. Am I off-base here, or is this exactly what is happening?

ThunderBee 1y ago
This is basically what’s happening. The left opened the doors of academic and internet censorship and the right went ‘two can play that game!’ And kicked it wide open.
- consumer451 1y ago
  > The left opened the doors of academic and internet censorship This was almost entirely an astroturfed campaign, which very effectively worked to whip people up into believing that they were being censored. Whenever it came up in the last few years in online conversations, I would ask "OK, so what are you being censored from saying?" Dozens, maybe a hundred times, of me asking that question, and it was nearly always crickets in response. What is the evidence of "the left" censoring academia? Whenever I dig into that, it's sloppy science, fringe theories, or straight up crackpots who couldn't get published in a journal, who then found popularity on youtube and podcasts doing the "I am being censored by Big Science" grift. If anyone would care to educate me on this, with evidence, I am here for it.
  - mandmandam 1y ago
    > What is the evidence of "the left" censoring academia? Here's a decent summary of how some of these censorship doors were opened: https://www.acsh.org/news/2024/02/25/covid-censorship-yes-biden-admin-suppressed-free-speech-during-pandemic-17678 https://www.acsh.org/news/2024/02/25/covid-censorship-yes-bi... There are also more vivid and recent examples, like barring universities from divestment from Israel (ie, 0]), which has happened in quite a few 'blue' states. Not to mention sending in armed police (ie, [1]) to break up peaceful anti-genocide protests. 0 - https://apnews.com/article/pennsylvania-israel-gaza-campus-protests-divestment-f8623deb88aba24bbe2c51a277dbf50f https://apnews.com/article/pennsylvania-israel-gaza-campus-p... 1 - https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-campus-protests-michigan-335904cf0ecb308a111eaa8bc86aeaf5 https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-campus-p...
    - spacemadness 1y ago
      I guess I must have hallucinated Trump threatening universities for anti genocide protests.
      - mandmandam 1y ago
        You certainly seem to have hallucinated me saying anything about Trump.
  - maeil 1y ago
    To prevent premature downvotes, preface: this comment is not about the merits or demerits of the censorship, just that it took place. Whether it's good or bad was a different question, but it very much happened. One might say that it wasn't "the left" behind it, but if you'd take approval ratings of this censorship at the time across left/right, the latter would've been strongly opposed with the former mixed at best, if not broadly in favor. > If anyone would care to educate me on this, with evidence, I am here for it. Sure, happy to. I'll focus on the "internet" part. There was mass censorship on the major US social media platforms during COVID in the name of "preventing racist attacks against East-Asians". This is widely documented and admitted. Yishan Wong, ex-Reddit CEO: > Example: the "lab leak" theory (a controversial theory that is now probably true; I personally believe so) was "censored" at a certain time in the history of the pandemic That Meta and Twitter banned accounts for discussion of it is easily verifiable, Wikipedia also banned discussion of it. In Twitter's case, they even had a CCP figure on their board of directors during this time [1][2]. [1] - https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/3940206 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/3940206 [2] - https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/5/25/twitters-new-director-has-ccp-ties-deeper-than-you-know-fei-fei-li https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/5/25/twitters-new...
- intended 1y ago
  The underlying forces have been at play since the 1970s, with a party policy to eschew bipartisanship and further charged by creating a dedicated party media. This setup has been constantly improved, to the point that Intelligent Design could successfully be held up along side the theory of evolution in American media - BEFORE the internet made itself felt. There is an asymmetric media failure at play, and the idea that “both sides” have the same faults, allows this failure to persist, because it drastically downplays the propaganda machine that operates on the right of the content economy. This is not an opinion, this is an open secret, as the people within the right wing ecosystem may as well be entirely captured. “Network Propaganda” does a better job of making the case, and should be required reading for most tech people interested in the market place of ideas.
- UncleMeat 1y ago
  Opened what door? "If only students didn't complain when Milo Yiannopoulos got invited to campus, the Trump administration wouldn't be kicking out (or imprisoning) international students based on their political beliefs, rejecting papers about gay people from conferences at military academies, and imposing quotas for hiring reactionaries." Is that the claim?
spacemadness 1y ago
You know, it’s ok to call it fascism. I know everyone is having a hard time coping and is still waving their hands wildly to call it something else. And just because the undesirables aren’t all dealt with in the first year doesn’t mean it’s not a fascist takeover. It happens in stages. But that’s what it is. Trump suggested that the federal government take over NYC if Mamdani wins the election. Step by step they’re trying to make it happen. It’s fascism.

saghm 1y ago

> Unfortunately that's the goal. Your call and I respect that, but the current administration doesn't care, they want folks who they determine have the wrong point of view out. I agree with you, but I also think it would be unfortunate to frame this as somehow the responsibility of those who would be suffering the risk to come here to combat this. As much as I'd love for people to come just to stick it to the current government, I honestly think it's probably a better idea for them to prioritize their own safety and security over trying to fight against it. The rest of the world doesn't owe it to us to fix our mess for us.