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They worked with the land they were allowed to use, and it ended up like this. Not even a money issue, just bureaus refusing to cooperate.

conductr 1y ago
I think that's the parent's point, someone should have just said No. If you have to sacrifice so much due to whatever constraints you face, the resulting solution usually is not going to solve the original problem very well. At the very least, I would have let it be known that I did not think the resulting bridge was a good design for traffic and has only been designed to appease the process. "I do not recommend constructing this design" would have been my CYA.
- libraryatnight 1y ago
  Someone should just say no to dark patterns, someone should just say no to layoffs that aren't actually necessary but bump share price, why aren't we all saying no more? Why does it have to be this obvious for this forum to conclude "Engineers should say no."
  - lovich 1y ago
    You get fired for saying no. Unless the government backs up qualified people saying no, by protecting them from the companies wrath, then you won’t get anyone saying no. Caveat that this is targeted towards US software environment, I’m under the belief that engineers designing roads and buildings are actually accredited and protected in this way in some countries
    - reaperducer 1y ago
      You get fired for saying no The people in the article said yes and also got fired.
      - cruffle_duffle 1y ago
        Of course they did! That is exactly what managements plan was! You think the corrupt politicians that greenlit this thing are going to take the fall? You think the people at the top weren’t aware this thing was unworkable?
      - triceratops 1y ago
        But it took longer to get fired after saying yes, and they were paid the whole time.
        fuzzfactor 1y ago
        >it took longer to get fired after saying yes, and they were paid the whole time. It's even worse than merely being fired from the project though, they were suspended. Nobody saw it coming, but it turned out to be a "suspension bridge" after all ;)
  - wat10000 1y ago
    I see plenty of people saying programmers should refuse to implement dark patterns. Layoffs aren't done by engineers. In any case, you can't rely on people to do the right thing just because it's the right thing. Real engineers have skin in the game. They put their signature on stuff and they're responsible if it goes wrong. If it's particularly egregious, they can lose their license or even be criminally prosecuted. That's a powerful backstop against pressure coming from above. Software doesn't have this, so naturally people are much more likely to give in to that pressure.

conductr 1y ago

I think that's the parent's point, someone should have just said No. If you have to sacrifice so much due to whatever constraints you face, the resulting solution usually is not going to solve the original problem very well. At the very least, I would have let it be known that I did not think the resulting bridge was a good design for traffic and has only been designed to appease the process. "I do not recommend constructing this design" would have been my CYA.

libraryatnight 1y ago
Someone should just say no to dark patterns, someone should just say no to layoffs that aren't actually necessary but bump share price, why aren't we all saying no more? Why does it have to be this obvious for this forum to conclude "Engineers should say no."
- lovich 1y ago
  You get fired for saying no. Unless the government backs up qualified people saying no, by protecting them from the companies wrath, then you won’t get anyone saying no. Caveat that this is targeted towards US software environment, I’m under the belief that engineers designing roads and buildings are actually accredited and protected in this way in some countries
  - reaperducer 1y ago
    You get fired for saying no The people in the article said yes and also got fired.
    - cruffle_duffle 1y ago
      Of course they did! That is exactly what managements plan was! You think the corrupt politicians that greenlit this thing are going to take the fall? You think the people at the top weren’t aware this thing was unworkable?
    - triceratops 1y ago
      But it took longer to get fired after saying yes, and they were paid the whole time.
      - fuzzfactor 1y ago
        >it took longer to get fired after saying yes, and they were paid the whole time. It's even worse than merely being fired from the project though, they were suspended. Nobody saw it coming, but it turned out to be a "suspension bridge" after all ;)
- wat10000 1y ago
  I see plenty of people saying programmers should refuse to implement dark patterns. Layoffs aren't done by engineers. In any case, you can't rely on people to do the right thing just because it's the right thing. Real engineers have skin in the game. They put their signature on stuff and they're responsible if it goes wrong. If it's particularly egregious, they can lose their license or even be criminally prosecuted. That's a powerful backstop against pressure coming from above. Software doesn't have this, so naturally people are much more likely to give in to that pressure.