3 ms·

> But it is almost impossible to fix a bug you can't reproduce and have no clue why it might be happening. No, not at all. It's very easy. This bug involves t

> But it is almost impossible to fix a bug you can't reproduce and have no clue why it might be happening. No, not at all. It's very easy. This bug involves taking an inappropriate action under corrupted conditions. You don't need to know how those conditions arose. All you have to do is check whether they currently obtain, and - if so - refrain from taking the inappropriate action. For this bug, that looks like this: 1. When we're executing a "move"... 2. Before deleting the original messages... 3. Check whether the copies are identical to the originals... 4. And if not, delete the copies instead of the originals. At this point, the bug can't occur. The "root cause" bug, where your buggy logic says that you copied a bunch of messages even though you didn't, can still occur, but it can no longer delete any messages.

nativeit 1y ago
So…do it. Sounds like it’d make a great case study that would get a person tons of attention and praise on HN, a real feather to put in one’s cap. Literally nothing stopping anyone in this thread from opening a PR with this reportedly “very easy” fix that’s eluded developers for nearly two decades, and is so terrible folks swear off Thunderbird forever because I guess for email very basic rules for backing up data don’t apply (or something?) and/or Gmail and Outlook are implicitly trustworthy?
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  Did a developer ever try? Reading the issue, found only one person asking for test cases and trying to close it.
  - thaumasiotes 1y ago
    One of the many comments on the issue notes that although the bug has reoccurred in every version of Windows, it might not get much attention from developers because it is catalogued as something specific to Windows XP. Nobody in the intervening nine years followed up by updating the bug's metadata, though. It's still "Windows XP only".
- thaumasiotes 1y ago
  > and is so terrible folks swear off Thunderbird forever because I guess for email very basic rules for backing up data don’t apply (or something?) Well, this bug literally causes Thunderbird to delete your original copies of data during the backup process, so I'm not sure why backing up your data is supposed to be the solution.
  - jazzyjackson 1y ago
    Thunderbird stores mail locally on disk. If you're keeping backups of your disk, then this bug is not unrecoverable.
    - 1718627440 1y ago
      But keep in mind, that this is a cache. An UIDVALIDITY change will wipe everything out.
Forgeties79 1y ago
I try to never underestimate the incompetence/lack of concern people can have when it comes to addressing major product issues, but if this has been open for 17 years and is so widely known, somebody has surely looked into it and determined it’s not so easy.
- redeeman 1y ago
  and then they simultaneously determined "yeah, we might eat your data. Lets not warn anyone about that AT ALL, lets keep the feature activated and let them users lose their data". This behavior ought to be criminal.
  - yifanl 1y ago
    It's not criminal, but you're entitled to a full refund of Thunderbird in the event it happens.
    - saurik 1y ago
      Just because something is free certainly does not make it ethical, and it doesn't even mean it should be legal.
      - yifanl 1y ago
        No, but they're rather limited in ways to reimburse you or offer "justice". Putting the Thunderbird team in jail doesn't help you out. Hell, what if the offending commit was 2 decades ago by someone who's cut off all contact regarding code since?
        redeeman 1y ago
        nobody should fault the person who have coded the bug, unless someone can prove it was done on purpose. What I am suggesting is that the project as a whole has the responsibility to not just sit on data losing bugs for 17 years without warning users. the fact that they choose not to, makes me perfectly OK with them being held criminally liable.
deleted 1y ago
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nativeit 1y ago

So…do it. Sounds like it’d make a great case study that would get a person tons of attention and praise on HN, a real feather to put in one’s cap. Literally nothing stopping anyone in this thread from opening a PR with this reportedly “very easy” fix that’s eluded developers for nearly two decades, and is so terrible folks swear off Thunderbird forever because I guess for email very basic rules for backing up data don’t apply (or something?) and/or Gmail and Outlook are implicitly trustworthy?

mixmastamyk 1y ago
Did a developer ever try? Reading the issue, found only one person asking for test cases and trying to close it.
- thaumasiotes 1y ago
  One of the many comments on the issue notes that although the bug has reoccurred in every version of Windows, it might not get much attention from developers because it is catalogued as something specific to Windows XP. Nobody in the intervening nine years followed up by updating the bug's metadata, though. It's still "Windows XP only".
thaumasiotes 1y ago
> and is so terrible folks swear off Thunderbird forever because I guess for email very basic rules for backing up data don’t apply (or something?) Well, this bug literally causes Thunderbird to delete your original copies of data during the backup process, so I'm not sure why backing up your data is supposed to be the solution.
- jazzyjackson 1y ago
  Thunderbird stores mail locally on disk. If you're keeping backups of your disk, then this bug is not unrecoverable.
  - 1718627440 1y ago
    But keep in mind, that this is a cache. An UIDVALIDITY change will wipe everything out.

Forgeties79 1y ago

I try to never underestimate the incompetence/lack of concern people can have when it comes to addressing major product issues, but if this has been open for 17 years and is so widely known, somebody has surely looked into it and determined it’s not so easy.

redeeman 1y ago
and then they simultaneously determined "yeah, we might eat your data. Lets not warn anyone about that AT ALL, lets keep the feature activated and let them users lose their data". This behavior ought to be criminal.
- yifanl 1y ago
  It's not criminal, but you're entitled to a full refund of Thunderbird in the event it happens.
  - saurik 1y ago
    Just because something is free certainly does not make it ethical, and it doesn't even mean it should be legal.
    - yifanl 1y ago
      No, but they're rather limited in ways to reimburse you or offer "justice". Putting the Thunderbird team in jail doesn't help you out. Hell, what if the offending commit was 2 decades ago by someone who's cut off all contact regarding code since?
      - redeeman 1y ago
        nobody should fault the person who have coded the bug, unless someone can prove it was done on purpose. What I am suggesting is that the project as a whole has the responsibility to not just sit on data losing bugs for 17 years without warning users. the fact that they choose not to, makes me perfectly OK with them being held criminally liable.

deleted 1y ago

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