5 ms·

Matt Trout has died

214 points by todsacerdoti 1y ago

rwmj 1y ago
Couldn't we have a one sentence description of what "shadowcat" is? (The main website is also down at the moment.)
- sebmellen 1y ago
  > Shadowcat Systems is an open source software developer and software consultancy provider based in the UK but accustomed to operating worldwide via electronic communications. > We offer proven expertise in development of networked systems and reliably automating manual processes from business workflow to systems and network management. Shadowcat is committed to Open Source technology and specialises in working with Open Source Software and open standards and protocols. Shadowcat also contributes back to the community with patches, scripts and occasionally full packages.
- detaro 1y ago
  Maybe more relevant, Matt was a big deal in the Perl community.
  - ether_at_cpan 1y ago
    In his bio he has the most succinct and accurate description of Perl that I've ever seen: > Perl is a wonderful language once you get over the fact that a slightly quirky set of syntax and embedded regular expressions have a tendency to make it look like line noise in the wrong light. Once you're used to it, it's a hell of an expressive dynamically typed language with a huge set of libraries and classes available for it.
  - the_precipice 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - petesergeant 1y ago
      > due to his anti-semitism It is beyond intellectually dishonest to not put this in context; you've linked elsewhere in this thread to Ovid's obituary, from which I'll quote: > Third, he wasn’t a bigot. Far from it. He stood up for LGBQT+ rights. He didn’t care about your ethnicity, religion, or national origin. He was accused of philosemitic antisemitism[0], but while he admitted to me that he had hurt someone, he was bewildered by it. He thought he was making a joke; the person hearing it (someone else who I also respect) heard bigotry. For the record, I don’t think Matt was antisemitic, but I realize that this is such an emotionally-charged topic, that some will disagree. 0: https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/philosemitism https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/philosemitism
  - singingfish 1y ago
    Matt taught me everything I know about how to make commercial programming creative, engaging, artistic/craftsman type activity, aligned with my desire to keep everything open source to the maximum extent practical. Another former colleague who is way more talented than I am emailed me privately to express a similar sentiment. You'll find Matt's indirect influence in things like SQLAlchemy, and chunks of the enduring parts of the javascript ecosystem as well. He was known in the perl community, but his unparalleled thinking skills have a much wider indirect influence
petesergeant 1y ago
alt title: Matt Trout (mst) -- prominent Perl developer -- has died aged 42 Matt Trout (mst) was a very big deal in the Perl 5 community, although he was a deeply polarizing figure. He was a big contributor to many Modern Perl projects. I am personally very sad he's dead. I enjoyed the time I spent with him in person, and always found him personally supportive, encouraging, and helpful, although it would be remiss to not mention that a good section of other people found him a very difficult character on many levels. He wasn't a particularly heavy HN user, but here he is: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=mst https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=mst
- kleiba 1y ago
  For someone not up-to-date with the Perl community, could you elaborate why Matt was considered a deeply polarizing figure, please?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - petesergeant 1y ago
    He would have been happy to tell you himself that he had some rough edges, would speak his mind unvarnished, and would hold strongly onto his own opinions of what he thought was right.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
      That sounds like half this community. I suspect the issue is what those opinions were. I did not know him at all, have no opinion on him, and sincerely wish the best for those he left behind.
      - stefantalpalaru 1y ago
        [dead]
      - petesergeant 1y ago
layer8 1y ago
https://trout.me.uk/ https://trout.me.uk/
tunnuz 1y ago
Sad news :(
kubb 1y ago
42 :( it’s way too young - pisses me of when people spend days, months years of our time for their own benefit like it’s nothing
_rpf 1y ago
Super sad to see this. I worked with Matt around 2004. Super smart kid, very nice to work with. I ended up supporting one of the systems he built (in Perl). I used his Cataylst Perl framework for some projects after that because of him.
martinclayton 1y ago
I use Catalyst quite a lot - have been working on a new thing this morning. Thanks, Matt, the ripples will go on for a good while.
rurban 1y ago
You died way too young, my dear friend!
xena 1y ago
mst is the reason I know some Perl and also managed to get me a Perl group cloak on Liberachat. I will miss him dearly. I've added him to the list of X-Clacks-Overhead responses on my blog.
kodzoman 1y ago
I've met Matt on several occasions, and while he was a challenging character, he was also full of life and ideas, and an inspiration. He was a genius in an old-school, no-compromise way. I have been away from Perl for a long time, but some of my best memories and some of the most intelligent conversations took place while with MST and the rest of that amazing community. Fly high.
IncandescentGas 1y ago
RIP mst and thanks for all the fish. DBIx::Class and Catalyst are still a core part of how I pay the bills.
ether_at_cpan 1y ago
This is very sad news. As I said on irc: He brought many people into the community, and encouraged their growth (like me) I popped into the scene by sending a few Moose patches and then coming onto irc displaying an utter lack of understanding of anything Matt set me straight, and encouraged me to send more patches and I ended up as the manager for Moose and then inherited the ownership of literally hundreds (perhaps thousands by now) distributions that work helped me move from being mediocre at my job to being stellar, and enabled me to move on to much better jobs
- kzisme 1y ago
  What server(s)/channel(s) do you like to idle in? I miss being on irc :(
  - perigrin 1y ago
    I mean at a minimum #moose on irc.perl.org … Which mst was a huge reason why irc.perl.org is still around.
the_precipice 1y ago
Here is a far more balanced view of the recently deceased. https://curtispoe.org/blog/rip-mst.html https://curtispoe.org/blog/rip-mst.html
- fsckboy 1y ago
  where to vouch? this links to an informed, serious, and thoughful post, unvarnished the way Matt like things (oh, i see, it already got vouched twixt the main page and my comment)
  - kens 1y ago
    To answer your question, click on the timestamp of a dead comment if you want to vouch for it. (I think you need some karma level to do this.)
    - fsckboy 1y ago
      i had clicked on the the timestamp, that's where I was when I wrote "where's the vouch?" and after that I realized that somebody else must have vouched it already, otherwise I would not have been able to comment
- rjh29 1y ago
  When people rip on someone literally the day after they die - that tells you a lot.
  - diggan 1y ago
    i read that as a R.I.P at most but not a "rip" as in "mean". People have traits, some not always good, and that post seems to be a friend talking openly about both the positives and the negatives, not a stranger ripping on another stranger.
  - tripa 1y ago
    It's like three weeks in the making with counterpart review. Pretty far from same day rip-on.
moltar 1y ago
Eh remember him from IRC days
ShamblingMound 1y ago
Had a handful of interactions with Matt. Probably the last was sometime in the mid- to late-2010s. I essentially started my software development career using software that he was largely responsible for (unknown to me at the time): * Catalyst (web framework) * DBIx::Class (ORM) * Moo (object-oriented code) These are, in my opinion, some of the best packages in Perl, and there are rarely counterparts that are as good in other languages. Have not found an ORM that is as effortless and featureful as DBIx::Class, for example. I've read about his tough interactions with other people, and it does seem that, at times, he fell into the classic trap of loving his own ideas too much; but in our interactions (reviewing some of my code on a Perl project), he was really helpful and kind. Also amazingly quick. He read my beginner-level Perl code, instantly understood it, and instantly gave clear, concise feedback. It's a shame he has passed.
jasonjayr 1y ago
Last post, just 54 days ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mst https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mst Huge in the Perl world, he will be missed.
- ta8645 1y ago
  He made a few nice replies 41 days ago; found on that same page.
daneel_w 1y ago
Thanks for all the invaluable teachings about Perl stuff.
Slortibort 1y ago
I used to know him quite well, though not much in a technical context. He used to wind up taking home every single girl I introduced him to. He and I met when he pulled my FWB at a club and our friendship long outlasted either of ours with the FWB. He gave me career advice that I followed that set me on a path to the great happiness I now have. Shine on you crazy diamond.
- Slortibort 1y ago
  A day on from hearing the news, I find myself particularly grieving his passing. We haven't spoken in a few years and, indeed, I poached one of his employees more recently than we spoke, but I'd like to share an anecdote. Maybe to just get it off my chest. Matt used to be a regular in $pub. He was always there, frequently at his space on the left edge of the bar, frequently drinking snakebite and black, and as a regular to the same pub I got to know him. He was a man who could fill the room. He was a comforting presence of someone I could talk to any time I was there. He was reliable and engaging conversation. Anyway, this isn't the story about the first girl I introduced him to who he took home, but actually the severelth. I took a friend (who I very much wasn't with, nor wanted to get with) to $pub one night and after she and I sat and had a pint or two, we got chatting to Matt. He had an unmistakable charm and wow, did he turn it on. We got chatting in the beer garden of $pub and we were just chatting, but in that deep and long way that he liked to. I really enjoyed that night, but I saw that Matt and $friend were definitely sharing eyes. We spoke until kick-out at 1, when Matt invited us both back to his place. Now I knew full well that the invitation was for $friend and he was just being polite, but along I went, following behind as they got closer and closer. This wasn't the first time I'd been to his and he lived in a flat above a shop on the corner of a stone building with a dome, right near the castle. Inside the flat was mostly open-plan and you could see up into this slate dome. It served no functional purpose but it was quite the aesthetic. Whenever Matt invited people back, he'd always invite them to play the board game 'Sorry'. He had an ancient copy and a back-story about how it meant a lot to him that, to my discredit, I don't remember. But we played 'Sorry'. And as the night wound on, $friend fell further and further into his lap and the point became less and less about the game. He was trying to wrap up. But I thought "no, you sod. I'm not going until this game is done!" He'd pulled out from under me before and this time, I thought I'd play a joke on him instead. So I dragged this game on and on. I don't remember the mechanics but I absolutely refused to lose but without winning. I kept it going for over an hour at which point Matt and $friend were staring pointedly at me as I barely concealed a grin for getting to be his cockblock for once. Finally, the last turn came and I decidedly lost. I was immediately and with urgency ushered out of the flat as the dawn chorus sang with my last memory of them cuddling at the door, scowling at me before he pointedly shut the door. But do what you must, for I have already won. I walked home and felt like I won that one. $friend and Matt didn't stay a thing for long, but I'll always remember that time fondly. As will I carry with me the love of Woodford Reserve that he taught me. Now 10 years into my relationship, when I introduced her to Matt, I had to take him to one side and politely ask him "Don't take this one home." And he didn't try.
the_precipice 1y ago
[dead]
masfuerte 1y ago
This comment [1] has a link to this obituary [2] of Matt. The comment is flagged, probably because the author's other comment is very mean spirited, but the linked obituary is excellent. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44523887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44523887 [2]: https://curtispoe.org/blog/rip-mst.html https://curtispoe.org/blog/rip-mst.html
- fuzzfactor 1y ago
  When it said he died "penniless and alone" the first thing that came to mind was; he gave it all he had, and was still single-handedly exploring a frontier. RIP to a headbanger of math.
- raybb 1y ago
  Additionally, here's a Wikidata for him now if anyone has more to contribute there https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q135275712 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q135275712
xantronix 1y ago
Jesus fucking Christ. I am so sorry to his friends, family and colleagues at Shadowcat. I don't know that I or so many other people in and around the Perl community would have the life experiences we had without being "voluntold" to do something to, say, take a small part in making a conference happen, or to submit a talk I wouldn't have otherwise done. His oratory and presentation style is inimitable and he truly brought everyone up who worked with him, and even did his best to smooth over difficult personality conflicts on the p5p mailing list. He was instrumental in establishing a Standard of Conduct for contributing to Perl, as well. He was a staunch ally for the many he befriended and worked to bash through obstacles whether it had anything to do with his immediate obligations or no. Fucking hell man. This hurts. Love you Matt.
ciibc 1y ago
I remember this guy from IRC, many, many years ago. He was an asshole. Rest in peace anyway.
anarazel 1y ago
He's still idling in a bunch of irc channels...
- singingfish 1y ago
  and long may he idle

Matt Trout has died

214 points by todsacerdoti 1y ago

rwmj 1y ago

Couldn't we have a one sentence description of what "shadowcat" is? (The main website is also down at the moment.)

sebmellen 1y ago
> Shadowcat Systems is an open source software developer and software consultancy provider based in the UK but accustomed to operating worldwide via electronic communications. > We offer proven expertise in development of networked systems and reliably automating manual processes from business workflow to systems and network management. Shadowcat is committed to Open Source technology and specialises in working with Open Source Software and open standards and protocols. Shadowcat also contributes back to the community with patches, scripts and occasionally full packages.
detaro 1y ago
Maybe more relevant, Matt was a big deal in the Perl community.
- ether_at_cpan 1y ago
  In his bio he has the most succinct and accurate description of Perl that I've ever seen: > Perl is a wonderful language once you get over the fact that a slightly quirky set of syntax and embedded regular expressions have a tendency to make it look like line noise in the wrong light. Once you're used to it, it's a hell of an expressive dynamically typed language with a huge set of libraries and classes available for it.
- the_precipice 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - petesergeant 1y ago
    > due to his anti-semitism It is beyond intellectually dishonest to not put this in context; you've linked elsewhere in this thread to Ovid's obituary, from which I'll quote: > Third, he wasn’t a bigot. Far from it. He stood up for LGBQT+ rights. He didn’t care about your ethnicity, religion, or national origin. He was accused of philosemitic antisemitism[0], but while he admitted to me that he had hurt someone, he was bewildered by it. He thought he was making a joke; the person hearing it (someone else who I also respect) heard bigotry. For the record, I don’t think Matt was antisemitic, but I realize that this is such an emotionally-charged topic, that some will disagree. 0: https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/philosemitism https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/philosemitism
- singingfish 1y ago
  Matt taught me everything I know about how to make commercial programming creative, engaging, artistic/craftsman type activity, aligned with my desire to keep everything open source to the maximum extent practical. Another former colleague who is way more talented than I am emailed me privately to express a similar sentiment. You'll find Matt's indirect influence in things like SQLAlchemy, and chunks of the enduring parts of the javascript ecosystem as well. He was known in the perl community, but his unparalleled thinking skills have a much wider indirect influence

petesergeant 1y ago

alt title: Matt Trout (mst) -- prominent Perl developer -- has died aged 42 Matt Trout (mst) was a very big deal in the Perl 5 community, although he was a deeply polarizing figure. He was a big contributor to many Modern Perl projects. I am personally very sad he's dead. I enjoyed the time I spent with him in person, and always found him personally supportive, encouraging, and helpful, although it would be remiss to not mention that a good section of other people found him a very difficult character on many levels. He wasn't a particularly heavy HN user, but here he is: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=mst https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=mst

kleiba 1y ago
For someone not up-to-date with the Perl community, could you elaborate why Matt was considered a deeply polarizing figure, please?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- petesergeant 1y ago
  He would have been happy to tell you himself that he had some rough edges, would speak his mind unvarnished, and would hold strongly onto his own opinions of what he thought was right.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
    That sounds like half this community. I suspect the issue is what those opinions were. I did not know him at all, have no opinion on him, and sincerely wish the best for those he left behind.
    - stefantalpalaru 1y ago
      [dead]
    - petesergeant 1y ago

layer8 1y ago

https://trout.me.uk/ https://trout.me.uk/

tunnuz 1y ago

Sad news :(

kubb 1y ago

42 :( it’s way too young - pisses me of when people spend days, months years of our time for their own benefit like it’s nothing

_rpf 1y ago

Super sad to see this. I worked with Matt around 2004. Super smart kid, very nice to work with. I ended up supporting one of the systems he built (in Perl). I used his Cataylst Perl framework for some projects after that because of him.

martinclayton 1y ago

I use Catalyst quite a lot - have been working on a new thing this morning. Thanks, Matt, the ripples will go on for a good while.

rurban 1y ago

You died way too young, my dear friend!

xena 1y ago

mst is the reason I know some Perl and also managed to get me a Perl group cloak on Liberachat. I will miss him dearly. I've added him to the list of X-Clacks-Overhead responses on my blog.

kodzoman 1y ago

I've met Matt on several occasions, and while he was a challenging character, he was also full of life and ideas, and an inspiration. He was a genius in an old-school, no-compromise way. I have been away from Perl for a long time, but some of my best memories and some of the most intelligent conversations took place while with MST and the rest of that amazing community. Fly high.

IncandescentGas 1y ago

RIP mst and thanks for all the fish. DBIx::Class and Catalyst are still a core part of how I pay the bills.

ether_at_cpan 1y ago

This is very sad news. As I said on irc: He brought many people into the community, and encouraged their growth (like me) I popped into the scene by sending a few Moose patches and then coming onto irc displaying an utter lack of understanding of anything Matt set me straight, and encouraged me to send more patches and I ended up as the manager for Moose and then inherited the ownership of literally hundreds (perhaps thousands by now) distributions that work helped me move from being mediocre at my job to being stellar, and enabled me to move on to much better jobs

kzisme 1y ago
What server(s)/channel(s) do you like to idle in? I miss being on irc :(
- perigrin 1y ago
  I mean at a minimum #moose on irc.perl.org … Which mst was a huge reason why irc.perl.org is still around.

the_precipice 1y ago

Here is a far more balanced view of the recently deceased. https://curtispoe.org/blog/rip-mst.html https://curtispoe.org/blog/rip-mst.html

fsckboy 1y ago
where to vouch? this links to an informed, serious, and thoughful post, unvarnished the way Matt like things (oh, i see, it already got vouched twixt the main page and my comment)
- kens 1y ago
  To answer your question, click on the timestamp of a dead comment if you want to vouch for it. (I think you need some karma level to do this.)
  - fsckboy 1y ago
    i had clicked on the the timestamp, that's where I was when I wrote "where's the vouch?" and after that I realized that somebody else must have vouched it already, otherwise I would not have been able to comment
rjh29 1y ago
When people rip on someone literally the day after they die - that tells you a lot.
- diggan 1y ago
  i read that as a R.I.P at most but not a "rip" as in "mean". People have traits, some not always good, and that post seems to be a friend talking openly about both the positives and the negatives, not a stranger ripping on another stranger.
- tripa 1y ago
  It's like three weeks in the making with counterpart review. Pretty far from same day rip-on.

moltar 1y ago

Eh remember him from IRC days

ShamblingMound 1y ago

Had a handful of interactions with Matt. Probably the last was sometime in the mid- to late-2010s. I essentially started my software development career using software that he was largely responsible for (unknown to me at the time): * Catalyst (web framework) * DBIx::Class (ORM) * Moo (object-oriented code) These are, in my opinion, some of the best packages in Perl, and there are rarely counterparts that are as good in other languages. Have not found an ORM that is as effortless and featureful as DBIx::Class, for example. I've read about his tough interactions with other people, and it does seem that, at times, he fell into the classic trap of loving his own ideas too much; but in our interactions (reviewing some of my code on a Perl project), he was really helpful and kind. Also amazingly quick. He read my beginner-level Perl code, instantly understood it, and instantly gave clear, concise feedback. It's a shame he has passed.

jasonjayr 1y ago

Last post, just 54 days ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mst https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mst Huge in the Perl world, he will be missed.

ta8645 1y ago
He made a few nice replies 41 days ago; found on that same page.

daneel_w 1y ago

Thanks for all the invaluable teachings about Perl stuff.

Slortibort 1y ago

I used to know him quite well, though not much in a technical context. He used to wind up taking home every single girl I introduced him to. He and I met when he pulled my FWB at a club and our friendship long outlasted either of ours with the FWB. He gave me career advice that I followed that set me on a path to the great happiness I now have. Shine on you crazy diamond.

Slortibort 1y ago
A day on from hearing the news, I find myself particularly grieving his passing. We haven't spoken in a few years and, indeed, I poached one of his employees more recently than we spoke, but I'd like to share an anecdote. Maybe to just get it off my chest. Matt used to be a regular in $pub. He was always there, frequently at his space on the left edge of the bar, frequently drinking snakebite and black, and as a regular to the same pub I got to know him. He was a man who could fill the room. He was a comforting presence of someone I could talk to any time I was there. He was reliable and engaging conversation. Anyway, this isn't the story about the first girl I introduced him to who he took home, but actually the severelth. I took a friend (who I very much wasn't with, nor wanted to get with) to $pub one night and after she and I sat and had a pint or two, we got chatting to Matt. He had an unmistakable charm and wow, did he turn it on. We got chatting in the beer garden of $pub and we were just chatting, but in that deep and long way that he liked to. I really enjoyed that night, but I saw that Matt and $friend were definitely sharing eyes. We spoke until kick-out at 1, when Matt invited us both back to his place. Now I knew full well that the invitation was for $friend and he was just being polite, but along I went, following behind as they got closer and closer. This wasn't the first time I'd been to his and he lived in a flat above a shop on the corner of a stone building with a dome, right near the castle. Inside the flat was mostly open-plan and you could see up into this slate dome. It served no functional purpose but it was quite the aesthetic. Whenever Matt invited people back, he'd always invite them to play the board game 'Sorry'. He had an ancient copy and a back-story about how it meant a lot to him that, to my discredit, I don't remember. But we played 'Sorry'. And as the night wound on, $friend fell further and further into his lap and the point became less and less about the game. He was trying to wrap up. But I thought "no, you sod. I'm not going until this game is done!" He'd pulled out from under me before and this time, I thought I'd play a joke on him instead. So I dragged this game on and on. I don't remember the mechanics but I absolutely refused to lose but without winning. I kept it going for over an hour at which point Matt and $friend were staring pointedly at me as I barely concealed a grin for getting to be his cockblock for once. Finally, the last turn came and I decidedly lost. I was immediately and with urgency ushered out of the flat as the dawn chorus sang with my last memory of them cuddling at the door, scowling at me before he pointedly shut the door. But do what you must, for I have already won. I walked home and felt like I won that one. $friend and Matt didn't stay a thing for long, but I'll always remember that time fondly. As will I carry with me the love of Woodford Reserve that he taught me. Now 10 years into my relationship, when I introduced her to Matt, I had to take him to one side and politely ask him "Don't take this one home." And he didn't try.

the_precipice 1y ago

[dead]

masfuerte 1y ago

This comment [1] has a link to this obituary [2] of Matt. The comment is flagged, probably because the author's other comment is very mean spirited, but the linked obituary is excellent. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44523887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44523887 [2]: https://curtispoe.org/blog/rip-mst.html https://curtispoe.org/blog/rip-mst.html

fuzzfactor 1y ago
When it said he died "penniless and alone" the first thing that came to mind was; he gave it all he had, and was still single-handedly exploring a frontier. RIP to a headbanger of math.
raybb 1y ago
Additionally, here's a Wikidata for him now if anyone has more to contribute there https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q135275712 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q135275712

xantronix 1y ago

Jesus fucking Christ. I am so sorry to his friends, family and colleagues at Shadowcat. I don't know that I or so many other people in and around the Perl community would have the life experiences we had without being "voluntold" to do something to, say, take a small part in making a conference happen, or to submit a talk I wouldn't have otherwise done. His oratory and presentation style is inimitable and he truly brought everyone up who worked with him, and even did his best to smooth over difficult personality conflicts on the p5p mailing list. He was instrumental in establishing a Standard of Conduct for contributing to Perl, as well. He was a staunch ally for the many he befriended and worked to bash through obstacles whether it had anything to do with his immediate obligations or no. Fucking hell man. This hurts. Love you Matt.

ciibc 1y ago

I remember this guy from IRC, many, many years ago. He was an asshole. Rest in peace anyway.

anarazel 1y ago

He's still idling in a bunch of irc channels...

singingfish 1y ago
and long may he idle