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> There's something a bit... I don't know quite how to put it. Let's just say that I bet she'd willingly trade places with him, cash out, and go enjoy herself i

> There's something a bit... I don't know quite how to put it. Let's just say that I bet she'd willingly trade places with him, cash out, and go enjoy herself instead of cleaning up after other people day in and day out. See, the typical problem with claims like Fried made is that they're idealizing lives they don't know much about. But Fried didn't walk into that trap. He doesn't remark on her home life. He doesn't remark on her happiness. He doesn't remark on her hopes and dreams. He says she's "respectful, nice, and awesome". His point is that her business is sustainable, adds value, and does good. He doesn't say, "I wish I was a cleaning lady." All he says is that her business model is a good business model, and he's inspired by it.

davidw 14y ago
Her business model is providing a service: exchanging her time for money. 37signals used to be in that business, but moved towards providing products, rather than services. Presumably because it scales better and makes more money, even though doing design/programming/sites certainly makes good money in a sustainable way.
- saraid216 14y ago
  Is Google Search a "product" or a "service"?
  - davidw 14y ago
    Unless Google has legions of Oompa Loompas hiding in its server rooms running around retrieving data as queries come in, it's a product that provides a service: it does not scale linearly with the number of people working on it. Put another way: each additional cleaning lady client consumes more of her time, and pays her more money in a fairly linear way. Google search users do not fit that pattern, and, more importantly, neither do Adwords customers.
    - saraid216 14y ago
      You realize that there exist more than two business models in the whole of the world, right? Where do you get this strange taxonomy of "products" versus "services" anyways?
      - rhizome 14y ago
        Go easy on him, it's only the second week of the semester.
        emmett 14y ago
        This comment is needlessly mean and dismissive and doesn't belong on HN.
      - emmett 14y ago
        You're being needlessly pedantic. It's pretty obvious that by "service" he means a business where you are paid per hour you work: all freelancers, consultants, and all other businesses where the owner is a critical daily employee. Yes, that's not a typical word for the distinction, but you know what he means.
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
        saraid216 14y ago
        > You're being needlessly pedantic. Um, no. I was being exactly as pedantic as he was. The difference was that my word choice was actually correct.
        davidw 14y ago
        Do you understand what I am trying to communicate, or not? It does not seem like a difficult concept, so cut out the "Comic Book Guy" routine. Go ahead and actually correct my terminology if you care to - furthering everyone's knowledge is always a plus - but otherwise you are not adding anything.
larrys 14y ago
"All he says is that her business model is a good business model, and he's inspired by it." He says: "She’s been doing it some twenty-odd years, and that’s just an incredible success story. To me that’s far more interesting" I have absolutely no idea why he feels that someone who has cleaned homes for 20 years is an incredible success story. It's almost as patronizing as it is naive. What would be at least somewhat interesting is if she figured out a way to get paid 2x the hourly rate and/or get houses cleaned in 1/2 the time. Her station in life is to be happy cleaning homes. So she's a happy person. Great. What I'm not hearing is that he's living in her neighborhood or having her over for dinner etc. I hate this "I'm just a simple person let me go visit an ashram and live in nature" crap.
- yen223 14y ago
  His point was that it is a sustainable business, which is not something that can be said of most Silicon Valley startups (in his opinion).
  - larrys 14y ago
    "it is a sustainable business" If you set your sites low enough you can have a sustainable business. You can mow lawns or you can paint houses. That's being self employed with essentially what amounts to a job. That would be appropriate to talk about in a post about why it's better to do that rather than work for a large company.
- anamax 14y ago
  > I have absolutely no idea why he feels that someone who has cleaned homes for 20 years is an incredible success story. It's almost as patronizing as it is naive. Project much? > What would be at least somewhat interesting is if she figured out a way to get paid 2x the hourly rate and/or get houses cleaned in 1/2 the time. How do you know that she hasn't? He says that she's happy. He doesn't know much about how it makes happy or how it has developed. You think that you do and you think that she's doing it wrong....
  - davidw 14y ago

davidw 14y ago

Her business model is providing a service: exchanging her time for money. 37signals used to be in that business, but moved towards providing products, rather than services. Presumably because it scales better and makes more money, even though doing design/programming/sites certainly makes good money in a sustainable way.

saraid216 14y ago
Is Google Search a "product" or a "service"?
- davidw 14y ago
  Unless Google has legions of Oompa Loompas hiding in its server rooms running around retrieving data as queries come in, it's a product that provides a service: it does not scale linearly with the number of people working on it. Put another way: each additional cleaning lady client consumes more of her time, and pays her more money in a fairly linear way. Google search users do not fit that pattern, and, more importantly, neither do Adwords customers.
  - saraid216 14y ago
    You realize that there exist more than two business models in the whole of the world, right? Where do you get this strange taxonomy of "products" versus "services" anyways?
    - rhizome 14y ago
      Go easy on him, it's only the second week of the semester.
      - emmett 14y ago
        This comment is needlessly mean and dismissive and doesn't belong on HN.
    - emmett 14y ago
      You're being needlessly pedantic. It's pretty obvious that by "service" he means a business where you are paid per hour you work: all freelancers, consultants, and all other businesses where the owner is a critical daily employee. Yes, that's not a typical word for the distinction, but you know what he means.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - saraid216 14y ago
        > You're being needlessly pedantic. Um, no. I was being exactly as pedantic as he was. The difference was that my word choice was actually correct.
        davidw 14y ago
        Do you understand what I am trying to communicate, or not? It does not seem like a difficult concept, so cut out the "Comic Book Guy" routine. Go ahead and actually correct my terminology if you care to - furthering everyone's knowledge is always a plus - but otherwise you are not adding anything.

larrys 14y ago

"All he says is that her business model is a good business model, and he's inspired by it." He says: "She’s been doing it some twenty-odd years, and that’s just an incredible success story. To me that’s far more interesting" I have absolutely no idea why he feels that someone who has cleaned homes for 20 years is an incredible success story. It's almost as patronizing as it is naive. What would be at least somewhat interesting is if she figured out a way to get paid 2x the hourly rate and/or get houses cleaned in 1/2 the time. Her station in life is to be happy cleaning homes. So she's a happy person. Great. What I'm not hearing is that he's living in her neighborhood or having her over for dinner etc. I hate this "I'm just a simple person let me go visit an ashram and live in nature" crap.

yen223 14y ago
His point was that it is a sustainable business, which is not something that can be said of most Silicon Valley startups (in his opinion).
- larrys 14y ago
  "it is a sustainable business" If you set your sites low enough you can have a sustainable business. You can mow lawns or you can paint houses. That's being self employed with essentially what amounts to a job. That would be appropriate to talk about in a post about why it's better to do that rather than work for a large company.
anamax 14y ago
> I have absolutely no idea why he feels that someone who has cleaned homes for 20 years is an incredible success story. It's almost as patronizing as it is naive. Project much? > What would be at least somewhat interesting is if she figured out a way to get paid 2x the hourly rate and/or get houses cleaned in 1/2 the time. How do you know that she hasn't? He says that she's happy. He doesn't know much about how it makes happy or how it has developed. You think that you do and you think that she's doing it wrong....
- davidw 14y ago