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Can I sell it without paying a gazillion fees? Spoiler alert: No. There's a whole bunch of bullshit: https://developers.home.google.com/matter/integration/pair

Can I sell it without paying a gazillion fees? Spoiler alert: No. There's a whole bunch of bullshit: https://developers.home.google.com/matter/integration/pair#pairing_restrictions https://developers.home.google.com/matter/integration/pair#p... You can sort of run your own device if you're fine with giving google far too much information and they can block you at any time. Face it, bigtech has a hardon for closed ecosystems. If they could they'd make it so every computer that wants to send an ethernet packet has a private key blessed by some bigtech cabal which they can revoke, but luckily for us this standard predates this gross new fetish.

olalonde 1y ago
Do you extend that criticism to USB, Bluetooth, WiFi, etc.? The alternative and current status quo is every vendor developing their own proprietary, incompatible and insecure protocols. Unless there's a better alternative I am unaware of, Matter is a step towards greater interoperability and openness.
- snickerdoodle12 1y ago
  I do, but it's especially grating here because Zigbee didn't have this restriction, and none of your examples actually enforce it technically. I have some Chinese USB devices that are very useful but use an incorrect VendorID. But I don't care, they work great. And besides, so far I've been able to use 100% of my Zigbee devices with Zigbee2MQTT and it's been wonderful.
mardifoufs 1y ago
Isn't that true for ZigBee too? Can you sell ZigBee devices (and market them as such) without paying fees?
- snickerdoodle12 1y ago
  There are no technical limitations preventing this.
  - vineyardmike 1y ago
    No technically limitations, just legal ones. Which are famously irrelevant to international commerce?
    - snickerdoodle12 1y ago
      That's a good thing. The only thing these legal limitations protect are the american stakeholders and no one should care about them, they are already worth billions.
  - iamdelirium 1y ago
    You cannot legally certify something as Zigbee with paying a fee. This is the same for Matter.
    - snickerdoodle12 1y ago
      Then why did matter feel the need to lock it down technically?
markhahn 1y ago
branding is not closing. a closed ecosystem means hermetically sealed: nothing gets in or out. matter is just treating their brand with respect. not different from any other industry standard. if you're saying "I want all industry standards to become governmental ones", well, I happen to agree.
Larrikin 1y ago
Matter has nothing to do with Google except they are supporting the standard. If you care so much about an open ecosystem Google Home shouldn't even matter, you would be worried about Home Assistant support.
- snickerdoodle12 1y ago
  Well, there appears to be some link. I'm not clear on what it is, but here are the Home Assistant docs for using a Matter dev board: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/matter/#experiment-with-matter-using-a-esp32-dev-board https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/matter/#experimen... > NOTE for Android users: You need to follow the instructions at the bottom of the page to add the test device to the Google developer console, otherwise commissioning will fail. Anyway, you absolutely should care about Google Home support if you want to sell a device. It'd be ridiculous to sell something that only works with Home Assistant even if I'd personally be perfectly happy with that.
  - dieortin 1y ago
    Are you seriously using some footnote about Android as proof that Google somehow has any control over Matter?
    - snickerdoodle12 1y ago
      I am seriously quoting the home assistant docs that tell me I need to involve Google if I want to test my own Matter device, yes. Are you saying the home assistant docs are wrong? Please, elaborate.
      - dieortin 1y ago
        You need to involve Google if you want to test your own Matter device on Android, which is an OS made by Google. How does that say anything about Matter itself?
        1y ago

olalonde 1y ago

Do you extend that criticism to USB, Bluetooth, WiFi, etc.? The alternative and current status quo is every vendor developing their own proprietary, incompatible and insecure protocols. Unless there's a better alternative I am unaware of, Matter is a step towards greater interoperability and openness.

snickerdoodle12 1y ago
I do, but it's especially grating here because Zigbee didn't have this restriction, and none of your examples actually enforce it technically. I have some Chinese USB devices that are very useful but use an incorrect VendorID. But I don't care, they work great. And besides, so far I've been able to use 100% of my Zigbee devices with Zigbee2MQTT and it's been wonderful.

mardifoufs 1y ago

Isn't that true for ZigBee too? Can you sell ZigBee devices (and market them as such) without paying fees?

snickerdoodle12 1y ago
There are no technical limitations preventing this.
- vineyardmike 1y ago
  No technically limitations, just legal ones. Which are famously irrelevant to international commerce?
  - snickerdoodle12 1y ago
    That's a good thing. The only thing these legal limitations protect are the american stakeholders and no one should care about them, they are already worth billions.
- iamdelirium 1y ago
  You cannot legally certify something as Zigbee with paying a fee. This is the same for Matter.
  - snickerdoodle12 1y ago
    Then why did matter feel the need to lock it down technically?

markhahn 1y ago

branding is not closing. a closed ecosystem means hermetically sealed: nothing gets in or out. matter is just treating their brand with respect. not different from any other industry standard. if you're saying "I want all industry standards to become governmental ones", well, I happen to agree.

Larrikin 1y ago

Matter has nothing to do with Google except they are supporting the standard. If you care so much about an open ecosystem Google Home shouldn't even matter, you would be worried about Home Assistant support.

snickerdoodle12 1y ago
Well, there appears to be some link. I'm not clear on what it is, but here are the Home Assistant docs for using a Matter dev board: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/matter/#experiment-with-matter-using-a-esp32-dev-board https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/matter/#experimen... > NOTE for Android users: You need to follow the instructions at the bottom of the page to add the test device to the Google developer console, otherwise commissioning will fail. Anyway, you absolutely should care about Google Home support if you want to sell a device. It'd be ridiculous to sell something that only works with Home Assistant even if I'd personally be perfectly happy with that.
- dieortin 1y ago
  Are you seriously using some footnote about Android as proof that Google somehow has any control over Matter?
  - snickerdoodle12 1y ago
    I am seriously quoting the home assistant docs that tell me I need to involve Google if I want to test my own Matter device, yes. Are you saying the home assistant docs are wrong? Please, elaborate.
    - dieortin 1y ago
      You need to involve Google if you want to test your own Matter device on Android, which is an OS made by Google. How does that say anything about Matter itself?
      - 1y ago