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Home Assistant "just works". Yes it has a ton of knobs, but in the 3 years I've been running it, it's had no issues. Certain manufacturer devices being flaky

Home Assistant "just works". Yes it has a ton of knobs, but in the 3 years I've been running it, it's had no issues. Certain manufacturer devices being flaky, yes, but as a platform, it's been rock solid. I've not touched its config in over a year and everything works as it should.

delusional 1y ago
> Certain manufacturer devices being flaky, yes, but as a platform This makes me a little weary of your comment. I don't think I'd really care if my lights not working was due to a "manufacturer being flaky" if they worked yesterday, but don't today. Are you talking about devices being flaky on first setup (which sucks, but is understandable), or are you talking about them being flaky after an update?
- op00to 1y ago
  I think one solid way of handling the instability is to use high quality light automation (Lutron Caseta, for example) for the things you'll really notice, but for stuff you care less about (for me that's cameras, temperature sensors) you can use cheaper ZWave stuff w/ home assistant. The lights turn on and off when I expect, but temperature might update a little less frequently if HA is flaky.
  - ajolly 1y ago
    Long tail can be flaky, but in practice as long as you buy devices that are local first IE don't need to access the cloud you'll be fine. (For temp and humidity sensors the Bluetooth Xiaomi sensors are great and they're about $5 each)
    - rpcope1 1y ago
      Honestly, for any sensor that's basically just read only, the best thing I've seen is to just avoid all of the bluetooth/wifi/zigbee/zwave entirely, and just use basic tried and true accurite (or similar) sensors that never need updates and just pull the data with rtl_433. Way, way less fuss, they always just work, batteries last longer, by and large zero bullshit.
- jermberj 1y ago
  If I had to guess, they're probably referring to the way that certain devices broadcast their APIs to external services. A lot of them have no intention of allowing open access to APIs (e.g., my mini-split controller requires a slight hack to get it connected to HA). That is, the flakiness isn't due to HA updates breaking connections or an unstable server, but rather manufacturers designing closed and/or brittle systems. Try as they might, the HA authors and surrounding community can only do so much for such devices. Also, I believe the word you're looking for is 'wary' (as in, to be skeptical or suspicious), not 'weary' (as in, to be tired). :)
- tick_tock_tick 1y ago
  It's the devices that is flaky. Some of the shitty bulbs I got don't always turn on in one command but that was true via their own app too. Basically shitty devices aren't magically better via home assistant.
  - ethbr1 1y ago
    > Basically shitty devices aren't magically better via home assistant. I feel like half the griping about HA is people realizing all the hardware errata and physical reality bullshit embedded developers have to paper over on a daily basis. E.g. no, you can't just read contact sensors without debouncing
- turtlebits 1y ago
  I have several Aqara temp/humidity sensors that intermittently lose connection. They don't affect the operation/stability of the rest of the HA platform and is not a problem with HA, as my other zigbee devices that report the same data work fine. I should probably just remove them, but I don't have any automations that depend on them.
macNchz 1y ago
I guess the fact that some manufacturer integrations are flaky is hard to reconcile for me as far as the promise of "having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a problem". Regardless of whose fault it is, those flaky devices contribute to a less stable system. It's been a bit since I was operating it, but I did at times certainly have issues with updates—perhaps just individual plugins or system updates that created an issue, either way, still a situation where I had to sit at a terminal and debug. I only ever ran the Docker version, not the OS, so perhaps this is less problematic in a more completely controlled stack. I don't think I'm alone in this view, broadly speaking: https://www.reddit.com/r/homeautomation/comments/18hvl3b/i_give_up_on_home_assistant_i_just_cant_make_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/homeautomation/comments/18hvl3b/i_g...
- turtlebits 1y ago
  For my flaky devices, it it not a manufacturer integration, but over Zigbee. It's definitely the device as my other Zigbee devices are solid. Others have reported issues with the device in question (Aqara Temperature and Humidity Sensor) I ran the docker version on a QNAP for a long time, now on a Home Assistant Green.
- zeehio 1y ago
  I have been using Home Assistant for more than 5 years. The stability of the system has improved a lot in the last year. I don't recall the last time I had to reinstall or restore a backup. At the beginning (0.7 or maybe even earlier) I remember to have to reconfigure or reset my instance a few times a year. Those times are long gone.
iamspoilt 1y ago
I second that. Home Assistant "just works". I have had it running on this cheap used HP EliteDesk 705 G3 Mini Desktop for more than 4 years now without a hiccup and barely any maintenance or hygeing work on it. Just sitting in my tv stand and doing it's work. https://homeautomation.substack.com/p/setting-up-home-assistant-on-a-refurbished https://homeautomation.substack.com/p/setting-up-home-assist...
- DavideNL 1y ago
  Curious, do you do HA updates automatically, manually regularly, or “manually once a year or so”?
  - iamspoilt 1y ago
    Manual, would do it once a month or so. Hasn't broken ever since I have been running HA. I run the full Haas OS btw.
    - shmoogy 1y ago
      It used to be pretty bad about breaking things but I don't think I've had anything really bad happen in the past .. 4 years that wasn't my fault.
  - qwerpy 1y ago
    Not who you asked, but I do it “manually once a year or so” on a HA instance in a container running on unraid. It sometimes causes problems. Recently HACS (not a built-in part of HA but useful to get some extensions) broke on a HA update and I had to spend more time that I would have liked figuring out how to fix it. It involved running shell commands inside the container. Definitely not for anyone who isn't a techie.
dzhiurgis 1y ago
Yes it just works, but it's soooo difficult, here's my annoyances: 00. Installation method - you don't flash ISO into your thumb drive, no you boot ubuntu from usb drive, THEN download ISO and THEN flash your boot drive. This caught so many people. RTFM of course but FM should just say this in huge letters - BOOT UBUNTU FROM USB FIRST. 0. Host method - you either run this in docker and don't get like half features (add-on store) OR install HAOS and don't have access to your device anymore. Wanna use your computer for something else? Tough choice. 1. Integrations vs add-ons vs HACS - why is this so complicated. Add-ons only work when you run HAOS, but HACS works on any installation method. I've spent so much time moving from docker to HAOS just to realize HACS store works with with docker. 2. Root - I've succumbed to running HAOS and now I have no idea how to get root remote root access. Yes I can connect keyboard and a monitor which I had to get for this reason only and there's 0 fun to work on basic terminal on a high res monitor where you can't change font size. 3. UI performance - wanna explore data from one of the devices - either select all sensors from it and let UI crash trying to display 50 charts or pick sensor one by one (with broken scroll on desktop app). 4. Copy paste - how did they managed to break this on their desktop app is beyond me. 5. Disorienting UI - whenever I wanna reboot something I'm pissed off. Whenever I wanna find integration or add-on - I'm pissed off. Why there's media and to-do list? Why do I have to enable professional mode to unlock some menu's? 6. Bizarre way of doing things - wanna add derivative sensor? Install file editor, find some file, then fight fucking YAML syntax and then maybe reboot or reload or restart. Good luck! Why I need to add home assistant user and create password for my light switch? Bonus. They are not selling their own device (which is great way to get started) and offering some cloud subscription which usually is on path of enshitiffication. And don't get me wrong, there are things that it does't great and is very powerful and useful, but man it is difficult.
- slightwinder 1y ago
  > 1. Integrations vs add-ons vs HACS - why is this so complicated. Add-ons only work when you run HAOS, but HACS works on any installation method. Integrations are running under control of Home Assistant, while addons are separate applications, running under control of the OS. With HAOS they have that control as they are delivering the OS. They are simply lacking the manpower and experience to deliver a smooth control of external applications for every OS. > 2. Root - I've succumbed to running HAOS and now I have no idea how to get root remote root access. Yes, that is a pretty big flaw. They are trying to make it a simple as possible, they are probably flooded with complaints and issues from too many people with barely enough knowledge. But this whole setup they maintain with HAOS is really annoying. Though, there is documentation[1] for this. > 5. Disorienting UI - whenever I wanna reboot something I'm pissed off. Whenever I wanna find integration or add-on - I'm pissed off. Why there's media and to-do list? Why do I have to enable professional mode to unlock some menu's? They are doing too much, want to serve everything to anyone. Really annoying, but I guess the loud voices kinda demand this one-fits-all-solution. They should really rethink they focus and architecture. Maybe making clear, distinctive apps for specific jobs might be better. > 6. Bizarre way of doing things - wanna add derivative sensor? Install file editor, find some file, then fight fucking YAML syntax and then maybe reboot or reload or restart. To be fair, that's really depending on the devices and nowadays often an old solution. They have worked really hard to get rid of YAML for the normal jobs. But at the end of the day, HA is a hacky tool in a vibrant, extremely diversified environment. They are doing their best to deliver a unified solution, but it takes time, and sometimes still some hacking. HA has come a long long way, and is changing really hard, and they probably have still many technical debts left from a decade ago. Their biggest problem at this point is probably history and complexity. People who are using it for years, which are still knowing the old ways, or encountering old documentation.. And it's hard to get a clear picture with all the things that HA is offer and doing. [1] https://developers.home-assistant.io/docs/operating-system/debugging/ https://developers.home-assistant.io/docs/operating-system/d...

delusional 1y ago

> Certain manufacturer devices being flaky, yes, but as a platform This makes me a little weary of your comment. I don't think I'd really care if my lights not working was due to a "manufacturer being flaky" if they worked yesterday, but don't today. Are you talking about devices being flaky on first setup (which sucks, but is understandable), or are you talking about them being flaky after an update?

op00to 1y ago
I think one solid way of handling the instability is to use high quality light automation (Lutron Caseta, for example) for the things you'll really notice, but for stuff you care less about (for me that's cameras, temperature sensors) you can use cheaper ZWave stuff w/ home assistant. The lights turn on and off when I expect, but temperature might update a little less frequently if HA is flaky.
- ajolly 1y ago
  Long tail can be flaky, but in practice as long as you buy devices that are local first IE don't need to access the cloud you'll be fine. (For temp and humidity sensors the Bluetooth Xiaomi sensors are great and they're about $5 each)
  - rpcope1 1y ago
    Honestly, for any sensor that's basically just read only, the best thing I've seen is to just avoid all of the bluetooth/wifi/zigbee/zwave entirely, and just use basic tried and true accurite (or similar) sensors that never need updates and just pull the data with rtl_433. Way, way less fuss, they always just work, batteries last longer, by and large zero bullshit.
jermberj 1y ago
If I had to guess, they're probably referring to the way that certain devices broadcast their APIs to external services. A lot of them have no intention of allowing open access to APIs (e.g., my mini-split controller requires a slight hack to get it connected to HA). That is, the flakiness isn't due to HA updates breaking connections or an unstable server, but rather manufacturers designing closed and/or brittle systems. Try as they might, the HA authors and surrounding community can only do so much for such devices. Also, I believe the word you're looking for is 'wary' (as in, to be skeptical or suspicious), not 'weary' (as in, to be tired). :)
tick_tock_tick 1y ago
It's the devices that is flaky. Some of the shitty bulbs I got don't always turn on in one command but that was true via their own app too. Basically shitty devices aren't magically better via home assistant.
- ethbr1 1y ago
  > Basically shitty devices aren't magically better via home assistant. I feel like half the griping about HA is people realizing all the hardware errata and physical reality bullshit embedded developers have to paper over on a daily basis. E.g. no, you can't just read contact sensors without debouncing
turtlebits 1y ago
I have several Aqara temp/humidity sensors that intermittently lose connection. They don't affect the operation/stability of the rest of the HA platform and is not a problem with HA, as my other zigbee devices that report the same data work fine. I should probably just remove them, but I don't have any automations that depend on them.

macNchz 1y ago

I guess the fact that some manufacturer integrations are flaky is hard to reconcile for me as far as the promise of "having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a problem". Regardless of whose fault it is, those flaky devices contribute to a less stable system. It's been a bit since I was operating it, but I did at times certainly have issues with updates—perhaps just individual plugins or system updates that created an issue, either way, still a situation where I had to sit at a terminal and debug. I only ever ran the Docker version, not the OS, so perhaps this is less problematic in a more completely controlled stack. I don't think I'm alone in this view, broadly speaking: https://www.reddit.com/r/homeautomation/comments/18hvl3b/i_give_up_on_home_assistant_i_just_cant_make_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/homeautomation/comments/18hvl3b/i_g...

turtlebits 1y ago
For my flaky devices, it it not a manufacturer integration, but over Zigbee. It's definitely the device as my other Zigbee devices are solid. Others have reported issues with the device in question (Aqara Temperature and Humidity Sensor) I ran the docker version on a QNAP for a long time, now on a Home Assistant Green.
zeehio 1y ago
I have been using Home Assistant for more than 5 years. The stability of the system has improved a lot in the last year. I don't recall the last time I had to reinstall or restore a backup. At the beginning (0.7 or maybe even earlier) I remember to have to reconfigure or reset my instance a few times a year. Those times are long gone.

iamspoilt 1y ago

I second that. Home Assistant "just works". I have had it running on this cheap used HP EliteDesk 705 G3 Mini Desktop for more than 4 years now without a hiccup and barely any maintenance or hygeing work on it. Just sitting in my tv stand and doing it's work. https://homeautomation.substack.com/p/setting-up-home-assistant-on-a-refurbished https://homeautomation.substack.com/p/setting-up-home-assist...

DavideNL 1y ago
Curious, do you do HA updates automatically, manually regularly, or “manually once a year or so”?
- iamspoilt 1y ago
  Manual, would do it once a month or so. Hasn't broken ever since I have been running HA. I run the full Haas OS btw.
  - shmoogy 1y ago
    It used to be pretty bad about breaking things but I don't think I've had anything really bad happen in the past .. 4 years that wasn't my fault.
- qwerpy 1y ago
  Not who you asked, but I do it “manually once a year or so” on a HA instance in a container running on unraid. It sometimes causes problems. Recently HACS (not a built-in part of HA but useful to get some extensions) broke on a HA update and I had to spend more time that I would have liked figuring out how to fix it. It involved running shell commands inside the container. Definitely not for anyone who isn't a techie.

dzhiurgis 1y ago

Yes it just works, but it's soooo difficult, here's my annoyances: 00. Installation method - you don't flash ISO into your thumb drive, no you boot ubuntu from usb drive, THEN download ISO and THEN flash your boot drive. This caught so many people. RTFM of course but FM should just say this in huge letters - BOOT UBUNTU FROM USB FIRST. 0. Host method - you either run this in docker and don't get like half features (add-on store) OR install HAOS and don't have access to your device anymore. Wanna use your computer for something else? Tough choice. 1. Integrations vs add-ons vs HACS - why is this so complicated. Add-ons only work when you run HAOS, but HACS works on any installation method. I've spent so much time moving from docker to HAOS just to realize HACS store works with with docker. 2. Root - I've succumbed to running HAOS and now I have no idea how to get root remote root access. Yes I can connect keyboard and a monitor which I had to get for this reason only and there's 0 fun to work on basic terminal on a high res monitor where you can't change font size. 3. UI performance - wanna explore data from one of the devices - either select all sensors from it and let UI crash trying to display 50 charts or pick sensor one by one (with broken scroll on desktop app). 4. Copy paste - how did they managed to break this on their desktop app is beyond me. 5. Disorienting UI - whenever I wanna reboot something I'm pissed off. Whenever I wanna find integration or add-on - I'm pissed off. Why there's media and to-do list? Why do I have to enable professional mode to unlock some menu's? 6. Bizarre way of doing things - wanna add derivative sensor? Install file editor, find some file, then fight fucking YAML syntax and then maybe reboot or reload or restart. Good luck! Why I need to add home assistant user and create password for my light switch? Bonus. They are not selling their own device (which is great way to get started) and offering some cloud subscription which usually is on path of enshitiffication. And don't get me wrong, there are things that it does't great and is very powerful and useful, but man it is difficult.

slightwinder 1y ago
> 1. Integrations vs add-ons vs HACS - why is this so complicated. Add-ons only work when you run HAOS, but HACS works on any installation method. Integrations are running under control of Home Assistant, while addons are separate applications, running under control of the OS. With HAOS they have that control as they are delivering the OS. They are simply lacking the manpower and experience to deliver a smooth control of external applications for every OS. > 2. Root - I've succumbed to running HAOS and now I have no idea how to get root remote root access. Yes, that is a pretty big flaw. They are trying to make it a simple as possible, they are probably flooded with complaints and issues from too many people with barely enough knowledge. But this whole setup they maintain with HAOS is really annoying. Though, there is documentation[1] for this. > 5. Disorienting UI - whenever I wanna reboot something I'm pissed off. Whenever I wanna find integration or add-on - I'm pissed off. Why there's media and to-do list? Why do I have to enable professional mode to unlock some menu's? They are doing too much, want to serve everything to anyone. Really annoying, but I guess the loud voices kinda demand this one-fits-all-solution. They should really rethink they focus and architecture. Maybe making clear, distinctive apps for specific jobs might be better. > 6. Bizarre way of doing things - wanna add derivative sensor? Install file editor, find some file, then fight fucking YAML syntax and then maybe reboot or reload or restart. To be fair, that's really depending on the devices and nowadays often an old solution. They have worked really hard to get rid of YAML for the normal jobs. But at the end of the day, HA is a hacky tool in a vibrant, extremely diversified environment. They are doing their best to deliver a unified solution, but it takes time, and sometimes still some hacking. HA has come a long long way, and is changing really hard, and they probably have still many technical debts left from a decade ago. Their biggest problem at this point is probably history and complexity. People who are using it for years, which are still knowing the old ways, or encountering old documentation.. And it's hard to get a clear picture with all the things that HA is offer and doing. [1] https://developers.home-assistant.io/docs/operating-system/debugging/ https://developers.home-assistant.io/docs/operating-system/d...