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I'm sorry..I strongly disagree. You have me on the video support...OS X does a much better job there. You even have a point on audio drivers...they can be a pai

by rufugee 14y ago

I'm sorry..I strongly disagree. You have me on the video support...OS X does a much better job there. You even have a point on audio drivers...they can be a pain at times. But design? Gnome 3 and Unity to me are FAR superior to OS X in terms of UI experience. YMMV of course. I bought a Macbook, gave it a fair shot, and it ended up being a dust collector simply because the desktop experience was painful compared to Ubuntu or Fedora (well, that and the fact that I got maybe three hours of the supposed 7 hour battery, and the fact that I can't upgrade it past 4 GB of ram o.O). Perhaps I'm set in my ways, but the absolute insanse window switching behavior, the piss poor excuse for a terminal, the fact that apps continue to run in the background after you close the last window, and the general SLOW performance made my $2500 investment one I'll regret for very long time. Switching to a Lenovo running Ubuntu was a far better (and MUCH cheaper) experience.

thornofmight 14y ago
"Perhaps I'm set in my ways" -- I think this pretty much says it all.
sjs 14y ago
It sounds like you expected a clone of Windows and were predictably disappointed. > I got maybe three hours of the supposed 7 hour battery You should have taken it back. Seriously. > Perhaps I'm set in my ways You hit the nail on the head here. There's nothing wrong with that but most of your complaints amount to "this is not what I am used to". > the absolute insanse window switching behavior On Windows and Linux I cannot switch to an app bringing all windows to the front, I have to do it one at a time. Anyone used to one behaviour could claim the other is insane just because it is different. > the piss poor excuse for a terminal What on earth are you talking about? The Terminal app? Get iTerm2 or something else then. If you don't like gnome-terminal you don't whine about it, you just install urxvt or whatever. > the fact that apps continue to run in the background after you close the last window The fact that you have to have visible windows for an app to run on Windows and Linux could be perceived the same way. What if I wanted to switch back and use that app again?
- lttlrck 14y ago
  Much like the Mac OS menu bar; drove me nuts stuck at the top of the screen like that, but a lot of people like it and I can understand that...
  - nirvana 14y ago
    That's my point. It's not that a lot of people like it. In fact, whether people like it or not isn't really relevant. It's that this is the correct way to do it. When the menu bar is at the top of the screen, the user is much faster at getting the mouse over a menu item and clicking to open the menu. It works better. This isn't opinion, it's measurable scientifically. When the menu is on a window, you overshoot with your mouse and come down and have to hunt to get on the menu to open it. This slows you down. But the thing is-- people get used to being slower and less efficient and then when on a better solution, they think the better solution is worse because it goes against all the compensations they've had to build up over the years to get around the other, poorer, design. Now, I'm not saying that you can't prefer a windows style UI and menubar, but I am saying it is most likely because this is what you've been taught to use, and thus it feels more natural to you, even though it is less efficient for you.
    - icebraining 14y ago
      Measured scientifically just means it's better for the majority of users; it doesn't necessarily mean it's better for me as a single individual. Not that I'm arguing against the bar on top; in fact, I'll use the keyboard shortcuts anyway, so I don't particularly care.
      - nirvana 14y ago
        I submit that we are talking about a physiological issue, not a preference. Attempting to hit a target in the middle of the screen is more difficult for humans than hitting a target at the very top of the screen. When you overshoot the target in the middle of the screen, you have to come back around to click on it. When you overshoot the target at the top of the screen, the pointer is stopped by the border of the display. Stopped right on the target, and you can just click. It may not feel faster to you-- that's perception. My point is that it is faster. And I haven't seen an argument for why the two things would be reversed for any specific person. It's the nature of the latency between our eyes, mind and muscles.
pswenson 14y ago
what's wrong with the terminal? hit cmd-q to close an app. no idea what you mean by insane window switching behavior. you gave no examples of how Ubuntu/Fedora is better to rebut on UX. care to share some?
- vetinari 14y ago
  What's wrong with the Terminal.app? Except for the fact, that it does not really work? Yeah, for simple stdout/stderr output it is fine, but for medium-sized ncurses apps it is a major PITA. Even Icaza's own Midnight Commander does not work there.
  - pswenson 14y ago
    no idea what you are getting at.
    - TheGateKeeper 14y ago
      Neither do I. Ncurses and mc work just fine in OS X Terminal.app. Even under 10.8.1
  - DrJokepu 14y ago
    No, seriously, what’s wrong with mc in Terminal.app? I mean, OS X and Terminal.app take over function keys for other purposes like, I don't know, changing the volume, but these things can be disabled if you want to use function keys for something else, like mc commands.

by rufugee 14y ago

thornofmight 14y ago

"Perhaps I'm set in my ways" -- I think this pretty much says it all.

sjs 14y ago

It sounds like you expected a clone of Windows and were predictably disappointed. > I got maybe three hours of the supposed 7 hour battery You should have taken it back. Seriously. > Perhaps I'm set in my ways You hit the nail on the head here. There's nothing wrong with that but most of your complaints amount to "this is not what I am used to". > the absolute insanse window switching behavior On Windows and Linux I cannot switch to an app bringing all windows to the front, I have to do it one at a time. Anyone used to one behaviour could claim the other is insane just because it is different. > the piss poor excuse for a terminal What on earth are you talking about? The Terminal app? Get iTerm2 or something else then. If you don't like gnome-terminal you don't whine about it, you just install urxvt or whatever. > the fact that apps continue to run in the background after you close the last window The fact that you have to have visible windows for an app to run on Windows and Linux could be perceived the same way. What if I wanted to switch back and use that app again?

lttlrck 14y ago
Much like the Mac OS menu bar; drove me nuts stuck at the top of the screen like that, but a lot of people like it and I can understand that...
- nirvana 14y ago
  That's my point. It's not that a lot of people like it. In fact, whether people like it or not isn't really relevant. It's that this is the correct way to do it. When the menu bar is at the top of the screen, the user is much faster at getting the mouse over a menu item and clicking to open the menu. It works better. This isn't opinion, it's measurable scientifically. When the menu is on a window, you overshoot with your mouse and come down and have to hunt to get on the menu to open it. This slows you down. But the thing is-- people get used to being slower and less efficient and then when on a better solution, they think the better solution is worse because it goes against all the compensations they've had to build up over the years to get around the other, poorer, design. Now, I'm not saying that you can't prefer a windows style UI and menubar, but I am saying it is most likely because this is what you've been taught to use, and thus it feels more natural to you, even though it is less efficient for you.
  - icebraining 14y ago
    Measured scientifically just means it's better for the majority of users; it doesn't necessarily mean it's better for me as a single individual. Not that I'm arguing against the bar on top; in fact, I'll use the keyboard shortcuts anyway, so I don't particularly care.
    - nirvana 14y ago
      I submit that we are talking about a physiological issue, not a preference. Attempting to hit a target in the middle of the screen is more difficult for humans than hitting a target at the very top of the screen. When you overshoot the target in the middle of the screen, you have to come back around to click on it. When you overshoot the target at the top of the screen, the pointer is stopped by the border of the display. Stopped right on the target, and you can just click. It may not feel faster to you-- that's perception. My point is that it is faster. And I haven't seen an argument for why the two things would be reversed for any specific person. It's the nature of the latency between our eyes, mind and muscles.

pswenson 14y ago

what's wrong with the terminal? hit cmd-q to close an app. no idea what you mean by insane window switching behavior. you gave no examples of how Ubuntu/Fedora is better to rebut on UX. care to share some?

vetinari 14y ago
What's wrong with the Terminal.app? Except for the fact, that it does not really work? Yeah, for simple stdout/stderr output it is fine, but for medium-sized ncurses apps it is a major PITA. Even Icaza's own Midnight Commander does not work there.
- pswenson 14y ago
  no idea what you are getting at.
  - TheGateKeeper 14y ago
    Neither do I. Ncurses and mc work just fine in OS X Terminal.app. Even under 10.8.1
- DrJokepu 14y ago
  No, seriously, what’s wrong with mc in Terminal.app? I mean, OS X and Terminal.app take over function keys for other purposes like, I don't know, changing the volume, but these things can be disabled if you want to use function keys for something else, like mc commands.