4 ms·

good luck to suse, hopefully denmark will be first to migrate to linux and stay there unlike other countries (germany i am looking at you). other than that i d

good luck to suse, hopefully denmark will be first to migrate to linux and stay there unlike other countries (germany i am looking at you). other than that i don't really believe owning EU data is the battle we can win with more regulations. I bet in 10 years nothing will change, maybe a few more grants, a few more laws..

saubeidl 1y ago
I think regulations can be highly successful, if used aggressively enough. Look at China - they own their data, because they didn't allow it to be exfiltrated. I think the issue at hand is that we've been half-assing our regulatory efforts.
- Tajnymag 1y ago
  Have you just used China as a good example for user privacy?
  - palata 1y ago
    I think it's more an example of successfully enforcing regulations.
    - thyristan 1y ago
      China is especially good as an example because it shows that most tech companies can be made to bend to their regulatory whim. Europe is hesitant in that regard for fear of getting left behind. China shows that this fear is mostly unfounded. And in cases where Western companies don't want to invest in China due to their regulations, local alternatives seem to quickly pick up the slack and over time even become better than their Western counterparts (at least in certain aspects). Just look at all those Chat+Payment things over there.
      - saubeidl 1y ago
        Yup, it's a win-win. You either bend a foreign company to your will or you get to build a local champion.
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        So far we thought the though guy on the school playground would always be on the same team, now it doesn't feel like it will ever be the case again.
      - em500 1y ago
        > Europe is hesitant in that regard for fear of getting left behind. China shows that this fear is mostly unfounded. It's hard to transplant the Chinese experience elsewhere. Not only due to Europe's current far greater dependence on American software and cloud providers, but also due to China's far larger pool of technical expertise, likely resulting from many decades of heavy emphasis on math and science education, together with far greater social and monetary rewards. I doubt that European politicians or their electorates have the patience for a big turnaround that may not start to pay off for several decades or even generations.
        saubeidl 1y ago
        Thankfully, we have parts of the ex soviet bloc that had the same heavy emphasis on math and science. You wouldn't believe the number of Romanian software engs I've worked with.
      - hulitu 1y ago
        > Europe is hesitant in that regard for fear of getting left behind. And that fear grows when American companies pump money in the EU representatives. /s
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    No, as a good example for keeping your data sovereign. What you do with said sovereignty is another matter - I expect that part would play out differently in the EU than in China.
    - jorvi 1y ago
      I wouldn't be too sure of the EU being a particular strong stalwart of public institutions vis a vis privacy. They keep trying to hammer through anti-encryption or logging or scanning laws. Big picture, there isn't a government in the world that is better for their citizens than the EU, but it's more like least-worst. For example, free speech is a thing that the EU or its national governments love to encroach on and I am quite envious of the fiery defense it gets in the US.
palata 1y ago
Regulations work, you just have to enforce them.
- defraudbah 1y ago
  i am curious if you are from eu or ever tried to run a business here
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    I am both from the EU and running a business there. Do you have any questions you'd like me to answer?
    - defraudbah 1y ago
      yes, do you really believe more regulations help you?
      - saubeidl 1y ago
        Definitely! They set an even playing field (i.e competitors can't undercut me due to shoddy quality or questionable labour practices), enable interoperability and create an open market.
        defraudbah 1y ago
        interesting take, I guess I am still barbarian or a big capitalist head to believe in that. Thanks for answer
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
  - palata 1y ago
    Are you trying to say that there are no businesses in Europe at all? Like 100% unemployment? Or are you saying that you would personally find it easier with fewer regulations? For instance, there are probably laws that make it illegal for people to point a gun at you and make you hand them all your money. Do those hurt your business? If you can't run a business in Europe, maybe it's the wrong business, or maybe you're in the wrong place. But there are hundreds of millions of people in Europe who have a job, so I think it's safe to say that it's not impossible to run a business in Europe.

saubeidl 1y ago

I think regulations can be highly successful, if used aggressively enough. Look at China - they own their data, because they didn't allow it to be exfiltrated. I think the issue at hand is that we've been half-assing our regulatory efforts.

Tajnymag 1y ago
Have you just used China as a good example for user privacy?
- palata 1y ago
  I think it's more an example of successfully enforcing regulations.
  - thyristan 1y ago
    China is especially good as an example because it shows that most tech companies can be made to bend to their regulatory whim. Europe is hesitant in that regard for fear of getting left behind. China shows that this fear is mostly unfounded. And in cases where Western companies don't want to invest in China due to their regulations, local alternatives seem to quickly pick up the slack and over time even become better than their Western counterparts (at least in certain aspects). Just look at all those Chat+Payment things over there.
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      Yup, it's a win-win. You either bend a foreign company to your will or you get to build a local champion.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      So far we thought the though guy on the school playground would always be on the same team, now it doesn't feel like it will ever be the case again.
    - em500 1y ago
      > Europe is hesitant in that regard for fear of getting left behind. China shows that this fear is mostly unfounded. It's hard to transplant the Chinese experience elsewhere. Not only due to Europe's current far greater dependence on American software and cloud providers, but also due to China's far larger pool of technical expertise, likely resulting from many decades of heavy emphasis on math and science education, together with far greater social and monetary rewards. I doubt that European politicians or their electorates have the patience for a big turnaround that may not start to pay off for several decades or even generations.
      - saubeidl 1y ago
        Thankfully, we have parts of the ex soviet bloc that had the same heavy emphasis on math and science. You wouldn't believe the number of Romanian software engs I've worked with.
    - hulitu 1y ago
      > Europe is hesitant in that regard for fear of getting left behind. And that fear grows when American companies pump money in the EU representatives. /s
- saubeidl 1y ago
  No, as a good example for keeping your data sovereign. What you do with said sovereignty is another matter - I expect that part would play out differently in the EU than in China.
  - jorvi 1y ago
    I wouldn't be too sure of the EU being a particular strong stalwart of public institutions vis a vis privacy. They keep trying to hammer through anti-encryption or logging or scanning laws. Big picture, there isn't a government in the world that is better for their citizens than the EU, but it's more like least-worst. For example, free speech is a thing that the EU or its national governments love to encroach on and I am quite envious of the fiery defense it gets in the US.

palata 1y ago

Regulations work, you just have to enforce them.

defraudbah 1y ago
i am curious if you are from eu or ever tried to run a business here
- saubeidl 1y ago
  I am both from the EU and running a business there. Do you have any questions you'd like me to answer?
  - defraudbah 1y ago
    yes, do you really believe more regulations help you?
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      Definitely! They set an even playing field (i.e competitors can't undercut me due to shoddy quality or questionable labour practices), enable interoperability and create an open market.
      - defraudbah 1y ago
        interesting take, I guess I am still barbarian or a big capitalist head to believe in that. Thanks for answer
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
- palata 1y ago
  Are you trying to say that there are no businesses in Europe at all? Like 100% unemployment? Or are you saying that you would personally find it easier with fewer regulations? For instance, there are probably laws that make it illegal for people to point a gun at you and make you hand them all your money. Do those hurt your business? If you can't run a business in Europe, maybe it's the wrong business, or maybe you're in the wrong place. But there are hundreds of millions of people in Europe who have a job, so I think it's safe to say that it's not impossible to run a business in Europe.