3 ms·

It's a taxpayer's money so why wouldn't the taxpayers have a point if they think that their money is not spent best and, in the context of the global situation,

It's a taxpayer's money so why wouldn't the taxpayers have a point if they think that their money is not spent best and, in the context of the global situation, not really efficient at all in making the quality of life of EU citizens any better? To paraphrase this differently: if I as an investor gave you 100M EUR and 24 months, would you be happy to spend it for changing a frigging cap on the bottle or would you rather invest that money and time+people resources on something else?

perching_aix 1y ago
> It's a taxpayer's money so why wouldn't the taxpayers have a point if they think that their money is not spent best Not what I said. > in the context of the global situation, not really efficient at all in making the quality of life of EU citizens any better? Why would all decisions have to be this massively efficient slamdunk of an idea? Things can even be downright specifically bad yet still be generally useful in the grand scheme of things. Things can also be just kind of a stinker sometimes. You don't normally skewer something large over a minor issue. Critique is fine, but then "I don't like it" doesn't hold much weight, certainly not more than "well I do". > would you rather invest that money and time+people resources on something else? Are the levers I can and am expected to pull on the same as the EU? I don't think so.
- menaerus 1y ago
  > Not what I said. It's exactly what you were questioning and which is why I gave you the concrete example why people get attached to this particular non-problem. As for the rest of your comment, I think it went a little bit over your head.
  - perching_aix 1y ago
    > It's exactly what you were questioning My remark about most people who bring up Brussels unprompted being rightwing grifters really was just that, and nothing else. It is not lost on me that like anything, they can and should be critiqued as well. It's just not really being done, and when it is done, it's usually coming from a place of ulterior motives and ill faith (for now), and so is fairly uncommon. So it's a strange thing to claim that that's what "people think of". No it isn't, not unless you're in the aforementioned circles, which is not the general populace at all.
    - menaerus 1y ago
      Ok, I wasn't making a comment about "rightwing grifters" although this is also certainly amenable to discussion but I was rather making a comment on why would some people find it contrary to what you said in your first comment - "It's still hilarious to me how upset people are at this (or at least pretend to be)."
      - perching_aix 1y ago
        Oh okay, I misunderstood. Could have just replied to my initial comment then to be fair.
wiseowise 1y ago
I am an EU taxpayer. Caps stay bolted on. > To paraphrase this differently: if I as an investor gave you 100M EUR and 24 months, would you be happy to spend it for changing a frigging cap on the bottle or would you rather invest that money and time+people resources on something else? Grifter 101 – “think about what we’d be able to achieve if you did X instead of Y, comrade!”.
- menaerus 1y ago
  It's fine with me if you think that the bottle caps were a worthy move, ok? We are different in the fact that I prefer to discuss objectively with arguments and not using the collective bias as you seem to impose on me without actually knowing anything about me. My mind is open for discussion but probably not suitable for the likes who cannot think out of the box. As for the grifter, I don't think you really understand the meaning of that word.
  - perching_aix 1y ago
    I guess this is my fault, sorry everyone. Let me clarify here, cause the editing window for my comment upstream from this has already passed: > People are upset because it shows Brussels disfunction in a nutshell. This is what I was reacting to when I said that in my experience people who bring up Brussels like this "are rightwing grifters". It wasn't in the sense that I was pointing at the person above or anyone else in particular here with this label, but rather, that I was taking an issue with the claim that this kind of thinking (Brussels this, Brussels that) is a people at large thing ("people are upset because"), rather than just something prevalent in those aforementioned circles. This does sort of imply that I think the person above my comments belongs to those circles, but that really doesn't need to be true, nor was that really my intention to suggest necessarily. I guess this is as good of a lesson for me as any why engaging in labeling (particularly negative one) can be detrimental to discourse, regardless of context. Apologies.

perching_aix 1y ago

> It's a taxpayer's money so why wouldn't the taxpayers have a point if they think that their money is not spent best Not what I said. > in the context of the global situation, not really efficient at all in making the quality of life of EU citizens any better? Why would all decisions have to be this massively efficient slamdunk of an idea? Things can even be downright specifically bad yet still be generally useful in the grand scheme of things. Things can also be just kind of a stinker sometimes. You don't normally skewer something large over a minor issue. Critique is fine, but then "I don't like it" doesn't hold much weight, certainly not more than "well I do". > would you rather invest that money and time+people resources on something else? Are the levers I can and am expected to pull on the same as the EU? I don't think so.

menaerus 1y ago
> Not what I said. It's exactly what you were questioning and which is why I gave you the concrete example why people get attached to this particular non-problem. As for the rest of your comment, I think it went a little bit over your head.
- perching_aix 1y ago
  > It's exactly what you were questioning My remark about most people who bring up Brussels unprompted being rightwing grifters really was just that, and nothing else. It is not lost on me that like anything, they can and should be critiqued as well. It's just not really being done, and when it is done, it's usually coming from a place of ulterior motives and ill faith (for now), and so is fairly uncommon. So it's a strange thing to claim that that's what "people think of". No it isn't, not unless you're in the aforementioned circles, which is not the general populace at all.
  - menaerus 1y ago
    Ok, I wasn't making a comment about "rightwing grifters" although this is also certainly amenable to discussion but I was rather making a comment on why would some people find it contrary to what you said in your first comment - "It's still hilarious to me how upset people are at this (or at least pretend to be)."
    - perching_aix 1y ago
      Oh okay, I misunderstood. Could have just replied to my initial comment then to be fair.

wiseowise 1y ago

I am an EU taxpayer. Caps stay bolted on. > To paraphrase this differently: if I as an investor gave you 100M EUR and 24 months, would you be happy to spend it for changing a frigging cap on the bottle or would you rather invest that money and time+people resources on something else? Grifter 101 – “think about what we’d be able to achieve if you did X instead of Y, comrade!”.

menaerus 1y ago
It's fine with me if you think that the bottle caps were a worthy move, ok? We are different in the fact that I prefer to discuss objectively with arguments and not using the collective bias as you seem to impose on me without actually knowing anything about me. My mind is open for discussion but probably not suitable for the likes who cannot think out of the box. As for the grifter, I don't think you really understand the meaning of that word.
- perching_aix 1y ago
  I guess this is my fault, sorry everyone. Let me clarify here, cause the editing window for my comment upstream from this has already passed: > People are upset because it shows Brussels disfunction in a nutshell. This is what I was reacting to when I said that in my experience people who bring up Brussels like this "are rightwing grifters". It wasn't in the sense that I was pointing at the person above or anyone else in particular here with this label, but rather, that I was taking an issue with the claim that this kind of thinking (Brussels this, Brussels that) is a people at large thing ("people are upset because"), rather than just something prevalent in those aforementioned circles. This does sort of imply that I think the person above my comments belongs to those circles, but that really doesn't need to be true, nor was that really my intention to suggest necessarily. I guess this is as good of a lesson for me as any why engaging in labeling (particularly negative one) can be detrimental to discourse, regardless of context. Apologies.