5 ms·

SUSE launches new European digital sovereignty service to meet surging demand

139 points by saubeidl 1y ago

jpalomaki 1y ago
"Customer support data is stored exclusively on EU-located networks and servers" We should not just focus on the location. It's about who is managing the servers and networks.
- anonzzzies 1y ago
  The focus should not be on the location, provided it is in the EU, but really the focus should be on carefully siloing the user data and make it only accessible to who needs them which is definitely no-one managing any servers and networks; it shouldn't matter (just dataloss, but not leaks which are not worthless). The info should be encrypted with different service dependent (healthcare, different levels, taxes etc) key pairs. As long as this data is accessible by anyone else but me, it's going to fall in the wrong hands anyway.
- pjc50 1y ago
  SUSE S.A. ownership does seem to be entirely European, if you're worried about Safe Harbor type issues. https://siliconangle.com/2023/08/18/suse-taken-private-majority-shareholder/ https://siliconangle.com/2023/08/18/suse-taken-private-major...
  - bgwalter 1y ago
    They were a German company before being bought by Novell in 2004. I think the popularity dropped after the takeover in Europe. Now that they are completely disentangled again, let's hope they restore the popularity. It is a good distribution.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - overfeed 1y ago
      > I think the popularity dropped after the takeover in Europe It wasn't the takeover, it was splitting SUSE linux into a paid stable/supported distro and a testing/community distro, like Red Hat had just done with RHEL/Fedora. Unlike Red Hat, SUSE didn't have the critical mass to force the community to be guinea pigs for paid customers, and it withered as folk switched to other distros, including the hot new entrant: ubuntu.
    - rascul 1y ago
      Popularity dropped because of backlash from the controversial MS deal that Novell did with Suse in 2006.
- diggan 1y ago
  > We should not just focus on the location True, but location matters a great deal, because some countries have a tendency to MITM any physical link they can get their hands on, even if that means scuba divers or secret rooms. But also who it is who is managing it, agree.
  - hulitu 1y ago
    > some countries have a tendency to MITM any physical link they can get their hands on, even if that means scuba divers or secret rooms The same countries have physical access to links in other countries, through agreements.
    - diggan 1y ago
      Indeed, and as of today, a lot of it is being re-thought and re-negotiated, which I'm kind of glad about.
defraudbah 1y ago
good luck to suse, hopefully denmark will be first to migrate to linux and stay there unlike other countries (germany i am looking at you). other than that i don't really believe owning EU data is the battle we can win with more regulations. I bet in 10 years nothing will change, maybe a few more grants, a few more laws..
- saubeidl 1y ago
  I think regulations can be highly successful, if used aggressively enough. Look at China - they own their data, because they didn't allow it to be exfiltrated. I think the issue at hand is that we've been half-assing our regulatory efforts.
  - Tajnymag 1y ago
    Have you just used China as a good example for user privacy?
    - palata 1y ago
      I think it's more an example of successfully enforcing regulations.
      - thyristan 1y ago
        China is especially good as an example because it shows that most tech companies can be made to bend to their regulatory whim. Europe is hesitant in that regard for fear of getting left behind. China shows that this fear is mostly unfounded. And in cases where Western companies don't want to invest in China due to their regulations, local alternatives seem to quickly pick up the slack and over time even become better than their Western counterparts (at least in certain aspects). Just look at all those Chat+Payment things over there.
        saubeidl 1y ago
        Yup, it's a win-win. You either bend a foreign company to your will or you get to build a local champion.
pjmlp 1y ago
Ironically, as ex zealot, desilusied with the endless fragmentation of Linux distributions and desktop dream, FOSS OSes currently are looking as the only way out of American dominated consumer OSes and related programming languages. Plus in my deep Penguin days, SuSE was one of my favourite distros, I loved yast based management, and the KDE integration.
- DaSHacka 1y ago
  > related programming languages. Does it matter what country a programming language originates from?
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Yes, unless they are 100% under international standards, or 100% open source, they are subject to export restrictions from the overloads contributors, as per the countries their headquarters are located on. Some examples, https://www.java.com/en/download/help/error_embargoed.html https://www.java.com/en/download/help/error_embargoed.html https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/nuget/nuget-org/policies/export-control https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/nuget/nuget-org/policies/e...
- Barrin92 1y ago
  >SusSE was one of my favourite distros it's honestly a crime that they don't get more traction. Tooling they've put out like the Open Build Service (which is distro agnostic), is fantastic. I've been using Tumbleweed on dev machines for a long time, and the fact that they ship fully tested images is imo just a vastly better way to do a rolling release.
  - DrillShopper 1y ago
    Their corporate support is a joke. When we bring a problem to them, which we pay them for, the turn around time is awful, and about 2/5 cases I end up having to break out the debugging tools and root cause/fix fix it because their support engineers can't be bothered. Especially their nVidia support. Worse than useless.
saubeidl 1y ago
[flagged]
- DaSHacka 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - tremon 1y ago
      Put differently, tolerance is a social contract: https://conversational-leadership.net/tolerance-is-a-social-contract/ https://conversational-leadership.net/tolerance-is-a-social-... Popper’s perspective aligns with the view of tolerance as a social contract. The protection of tolerance extends only to those who reciprocate it. When one party breaches this contract by imposing on others’ rights or safety, the injured party is no longer obligated to extend tolerance to the aggressor.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      > We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. And who gets to decide who the intolerant parties are in an argument/dispute in order to justify the use of force against them? The quote you posted literally advocates for censorship, oppression and genocide of the other side, except since it's of those YOU view as being intolerant, so then it's somehow moral and OK for you to do it against them, but you wouldn't agree to that when the other party does it to you when they view you as the intolerant one. Because that's exactly what the Nazis did when they got into power: they removed the ones who they considered to be intolerant form their perspective, and it's exactly the rhetoric Zionists use to justify genocide in Gaza: they're just removing intolerant people so then it's morally ok.
      - saubeidl 1y ago
        [flagged]
0xfedcafe 1y ago
This is really good news. Europe has kept saying that digital sovereignty is a must, but for some reason, they have primarily considered US-based projects like Fedora and almost never SUSE. This has always made me wonder, because SUSE already has almost all the necessary tools; for example, Rancher and openSUSE and they're well known in Europe for quite a while.

139 points by saubeidl 1y ago

"Customer support data is stored exclusively on EU-located networks and servers" We should not just focus on the location. It's about who is managing the servers and networks.

anonzzzies 1y ago
The focus should not be on the location, provided it is in the EU, but really the focus should be on carefully siloing the user data and make it only accessible to who needs them which is definitely no-one managing any servers and networks; it shouldn't matter (just dataloss, but not leaks which are not worthless). The info should be encrypted with different service dependent (healthcare, different levels, taxes etc) key pairs. As long as this data is accessible by anyone else but me, it's going to fall in the wrong hands anyway.
pjc50 1y ago
SUSE S.A. ownership does seem to be entirely European, if you're worried about Safe Harbor type issues. https://siliconangle.com/2023/08/18/suse-taken-private-majority-shareholder/ https://siliconangle.com/2023/08/18/suse-taken-private-major...
- bgwalter 1y ago
  They were a German company before being bought by Novell in 2004. I think the popularity dropped after the takeover in Europe. Now that they are completely disentangled again, let's hope they restore the popularity. It is a good distribution.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - overfeed 1y ago
    > I think the popularity dropped after the takeover in Europe It wasn't the takeover, it was splitting SUSE linux into a paid stable/supported distro and a testing/community distro, like Red Hat had just done with RHEL/Fedora. Unlike Red Hat, SUSE didn't have the critical mass to force the community to be guinea pigs for paid customers, and it withered as folk switched to other distros, including the hot new entrant: ubuntu.
  - rascul 1y ago
    Popularity dropped because of backlash from the controversial MS deal that Novell did with Suse in 2006.
diggan 1y ago
> We should not just focus on the location True, but location matters a great deal, because some countries have a tendency to MITM any physical link they can get their hands on, even if that means scuba divers or secret rooms. But also who it is who is managing it, agree.
- hulitu 1y ago
  > some countries have a tendency to MITM any physical link they can get their hands on, even if that means scuba divers or secret rooms The same countries have physical access to links in other countries, through agreements.
  - diggan 1y ago
    Indeed, and as of today, a lot of it is being re-thought and re-negotiated, which I'm kind of glad about.

defraudbah 1y ago

good luck to suse, hopefully denmark will be first to migrate to linux and stay there unlike other countries (germany i am looking at you). other than that i don't really believe owning EU data is the battle we can win with more regulations. I bet in 10 years nothing will change, maybe a few more grants, a few more laws..

saubeidl 1y ago
I think regulations can be highly successful, if used aggressively enough. Look at China - they own their data, because they didn't allow it to be exfiltrated. I think the issue at hand is that we've been half-assing our regulatory efforts.
- Tajnymag 1y ago
  Have you just used China as a good example for user privacy?
  - palata 1y ago
    I think it's more an example of successfully enforcing regulations.
    - thyristan 1y ago
      China is especially good as an example because it shows that most tech companies can be made to bend to their regulatory whim. Europe is hesitant in that regard for fear of getting left behind. China shows that this fear is mostly unfounded. And in cases where Western companies don't want to invest in China due to their regulations, local alternatives seem to quickly pick up the slack and over time even become better than their Western counterparts (at least in certain aspects). Just look at all those Chat+Payment things over there.
      - saubeidl 1y ago
        Yup, it's a win-win. You either bend a foreign company to your will or you get to build a local champion.

pjmlp 1y ago

Ironically, as ex zealot, desilusied with the endless fragmentation of Linux distributions and desktop dream, FOSS OSes currently are looking as the only way out of American dominated consumer OSes and related programming languages. Plus in my deep Penguin days, SuSE was one of my favourite distros, I loved yast based management, and the KDE integration.

DaSHacka 1y ago
> related programming languages. Does it matter what country a programming language originates from?
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Yes, unless they are 100% under international standards, or 100% open source, they are subject to export restrictions from the overloads contributors, as per the countries their headquarters are located on. Some examples, https://www.java.com/en/download/help/error_embargoed.html https://www.java.com/en/download/help/error_embargoed.html https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/nuget/nuget-org/policies/export-control https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/nuget/nuget-org/policies/e...
Barrin92 1y ago
>SusSE was one of my favourite distros it's honestly a crime that they don't get more traction. Tooling they've put out like the Open Build Service (which is distro agnostic), is fantastic. I've been using Tumbleweed on dev machines for a long time, and the fact that they ship fully tested images is imo just a vastly better way to do a rolling release.
- DrillShopper 1y ago
  Their corporate support is a joke. When we bring a problem to them, which we pay them for, the turn around time is awful, and about 2/5 cases I end up having to break out the debugging tools and root cause/fix fix it because their support engineers can't be bothered. Especially their nVidia support. Worse than useless.

saubeidl 1y ago

[flagged]

DaSHacka 1y ago
[flagged]
- saubeidl 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - tremon 1y ago
    Put differently, tolerance is a social contract: https://conversational-leadership.net/tolerance-is-a-social-contract/ https://conversational-leadership.net/tolerance-is-a-social-... Popper’s perspective aligns with the view of tolerance as a social contract. The protection of tolerance extends only to those who reciprocate it. When one party breaches this contract by imposing on others’ rights or safety, the injured party is no longer obligated to extend tolerance to the aggressor.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    > We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. And who gets to decide who the intolerant parties are in an argument/dispute in order to justify the use of force against them? The quote you posted literally advocates for censorship, oppression and genocide of the other side, except since it's of those YOU view as being intolerant, so then it's somehow moral and OK for you to do it against them, but you wouldn't agree to that when the other party does it to you when they view you as the intolerant one. Because that's exactly what the Nazis did when they got into power: they removed the ones who they considered to be intolerant form their perspective, and it's exactly the rhetoric Zionists use to justify genocide in Gaza: they're just removing intolerant people so then it's morally ok.
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      [flagged]

0xfedcafe 1y ago

This is really good news. Europe has kept saying that digital sovereignty is a must, but for some reason, they have primarily considered US-based projects like Fedora and almost never SUSE. This has always made me wonder, because SUSE already has almost all the necessary tools; for example, Rancher and openSUSE and they're well known in Europe for quite a while.