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> All the functionality attached to Firefox's "Browser tools" sub-menu should be unceremoniously ripped out, banished to the developer's edition. I hope this i

> All the functionality attached to Firefox's "Browser tools" sub-menu should be unceremoniously ripped out, banished to the developer's edition. I hope this is some kind of sarcastic take I am not getting. What a weird thing to stand for.

bauble 1y ago
It would be insanity. Even the most dedicated developers would switch to Chrome instantly.
JohnBooty 1y ago
Well, that saved me a click on the article. This take is insane or a troll.
- deathanatos 1y ago
  Some of TFA is more grounded. That particular paragraph though… It exemplifies why beneficial change is so hard sometimes. The loudest voice in the room can go "here are the problems", we can all nod along in agreement, and then "and here's what we should do" … and it's just out there. I've seen this happen numerous times — borderline continuously — in politics. Even ealier in the article, they (rightly, IMO) skewer Mozilla for laying off the Rust and Servo teams, but then TFA utterly undercuts its own thesis with, > It shouldn't be trying to capitalize on [projects such as Rust or Servo]. What? What's the point of Rust, or Servo, then, if not to develop a better Firefox?
  - JohnBooty 1y ago
    and it's just out there. Yeah! Marx is the most extreme example of this in world history, probably. His critiques of capitalism are absolutely some of the truest words ever written. They are essential. They should be required reading for the entire human race, even for the most better-dead-than-red capitalist. Embracing capitalism without acknowledging the downsides is just about the most dangerous thing imaginable. But then, Marx's proposed solutions... well, you know. They've never worked out too well. To make the understatement of a lifetime.
kgwxd 1y ago
As a developer who develops on Firefox, and only tests on other browsers just before deployment, I'd reconsider supporting it for end users if they're not going to be able to hit F12 to help me diagnose any issues that come up on their side.
Svip 1y ago
Yes; it's obvious you include the full context: > Did you know there's already a special developer's edition? No web designer is building on Firefox first any more. We're lucky if they even test on it. All the functionality attached to Firefox's "Browser tools" sub-menu should be unceremoniously ripped out, banished to the developer's edition. Though, it would be more plain, if they wrote "could" instead of "should".
- Liquix 1y ago
  multiple people working on projects with web UIs at my org daily drive firefox. the author's arguments come off as hotheaded and poorly researched.
- MrDresden 1y ago
  Even with the whole contex this did not read very clear to me.
- throw123xz 1y ago
  What's the benefit for Firefox and its users if dev tools are removed from stable Firefox and "banished" to the Developer Edition? Dev tools are part of all browsers. Even Safari, which tries to keep things very simple, ships dev tools on the stable version. I really don't see the point in removing them.
  - lokar 1y ago
    I have dealt with site outages where we have support talk customers through using the debug tools to help gather information. They are very good to have available to everyone.
  - baobun 1y ago
    "Safety". The thinking is that users are a danger to themselves and will be tricked by threat actors to add some CA cert to the trust store, paste commands into the js console, or download and sideload malicious extensions no matter what controls are in place so therefore these possibilities must be removed.

bauble 1y ago

It would be insanity. Even the most dedicated developers would switch to Chrome instantly.

JohnBooty 1y ago

Well, that saved me a click on the article. This take is insane or a troll.

deathanatos 1y ago
Some of TFA is more grounded. That particular paragraph though… It exemplifies why beneficial change is so hard sometimes. The loudest voice in the room can go "here are the problems", we can all nod along in agreement, and then "and here's what we should do" … and it's just out there. I've seen this happen numerous times — borderline continuously — in politics. Even ealier in the article, they (rightly, IMO) skewer Mozilla for laying off the Rust and Servo teams, but then TFA utterly undercuts its own thesis with, > It shouldn't be trying to capitalize on [projects such as Rust or Servo]. What? What's the point of Rust, or Servo, then, if not to develop a better Firefox?
- JohnBooty 1y ago
  and it's just out there. Yeah! Marx is the most extreme example of this in world history, probably. His critiques of capitalism are absolutely some of the truest words ever written. They are essential. They should be required reading for the entire human race, even for the most better-dead-than-red capitalist. Embracing capitalism without acknowledging the downsides is just about the most dangerous thing imaginable. But then, Marx's proposed solutions... well, you know. They've never worked out too well. To make the understatement of a lifetime.

kgwxd 1y ago

As a developer who develops on Firefox, and only tests on other browsers just before deployment, I'd reconsider supporting it for end users if they're not going to be able to hit F12 to help me diagnose any issues that come up on their side.

Svip 1y ago

Yes; it's obvious you include the full context: > Did you know there's already a special developer's edition? No web designer is building on Firefox first any more. We're lucky if they even test on it. All the functionality attached to Firefox's "Browser tools" sub-menu should be unceremoniously ripped out, banished to the developer's edition. Though, it would be more plain, if they wrote "could" instead of "should".

Liquix 1y ago
multiple people working on projects with web UIs at my org daily drive firefox. the author's arguments come off as hotheaded and poorly researched.
MrDresden 1y ago
Even with the whole contex this did not read very clear to me.
throw123xz 1y ago
What's the benefit for Firefox and its users if dev tools are removed from stable Firefox and "banished" to the Developer Edition? Dev tools are part of all browsers. Even Safari, which tries to keep things very simple, ships dev tools on the stable version. I really don't see the point in removing them.
- lokar 1y ago
  I have dealt with site outages where we have support talk customers through using the debug tools to help gather information. They are very good to have available to everyone.
- baobun 1y ago
  "Safety". The thinking is that users are a danger to themselves and will be tricked by threat actors to add some CA cert to the trust store, paste commands into the js console, or download and sideload malicious extensions no matter what controls are in place so therefore these possibilities must be removed.