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"To me that’s far more interesting than a tech company that’s hiring a bunch of people, just got their fourth round of financing for 12 million dollars, and the

by Jd 14y ago

"To me that’s far more interesting than a tech company that’s hiring a bunch of people, just got their fourth round of financing for 12 million dollars, and they’re still losing money. That’s what everyone talks about as being exciting, but I think that’s an absolutely disgusting scenario when it comes to business." Hilarious given that Jason Fried was on the board of directors of Groupon (his comments on this "disgusting scenario" here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2617160 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2617160).

lincolnwebs 14y ago
Congratulations, you brought up JF's Groupon involvement the fastest on this 37Signals link. Well done.
- sabat 14y ago
  It's relevant.
spitfire 14y ago
Do as I say, not as I do. Ego has this astonishing effect of completely bending[1] the space-time-reality fabric of the universe. 1. Or ripping it apart, depending on how well off you've become and how many sports cars you've bought.
- tptacek 14y ago
  37signals does not reap millions of dollars of VC investment to staff up huge numbers of people while running their business in the red. But a reader of your comment would be left to wonder whether they do, because you wrote it carelessly.
- wlll 14y ago
  I can't speak for Jason or comment on his involvement on the board of Groupon, but he does do as he says within 37signals.
- batista 14y ago
  >Do as I say, not as I do. Which is mighty fine. I'f I'm telling you to be good and I'm bad, them I'm a hypocrite. That doesn't mean that my advice is bad, or that you shouldn't follow it. Follow an advice (or not) by the intrinsic value of it, not by who the one giving it is or what he does.
endtwist 14y ago
I don't know if it's really that odd. Jason's feelings about the way a company should be run may have been at odds with the way Groupon was run. However, that wasn't what Andrew asked Jason to provide guidance on.
- Jd 14y ago
  The problem is that Jason uses superlatives and buzz words in this interview and elsewhere. Either they just are marketing fluff for his "sustainable" (i.e. buzz word-laden) business, or he actually believes them. However, if he actually believes them, and if Groupon really is "absolutely disgusting," why would have he not only given advice but retained shares in in the company? Personally, I don't even give free advice to things I think are "absolutely disgusting" unless it is to clean up before talking to me, and I'm not sure why we should expect anything different from Jason. Like I said, I'm open to the idea that Jason is simply exaggerating to set his "slow company" apart from the pack, but if I'm going to write a critique it is going to have to be with the words on the page, not my idea of what is going on in Jason's head. edit: will accept a third possibility, that Jason's ideas have grown stronger as he has witnessed Groupon from the inside. 2nd edit: "invested" -> "retained shares in"
  - tptacek 14y ago
    I am having a hard time following this comment. Are you suggesting that Jason Fried doesn't run 37signals in the manner he's talking about here? If so, then on information & belief, you're wrong. If you're just saying that you think owning equity in a company not run the way he runs his own company undercuts everything he writes... ok, but what a boring objection to raise.
    - rdl 14y ago
      A board seat is a lot different from just holding equity. I own HPQ, RIMM, and YHOO, and if I had a board seat in any, my push would be for sale and getting rid of everyone above the first layer of management and engineers. (Boardmembers can't do this directly, but can work with shareholders and management, and ultimately hire competent CEOs)
twelvedigits 14y ago
I think you're overestimating the influence of board members. You can judge him based on how he runs his company, not how he participates on one company's board. That's "do as I do."
yesimahuman 14y ago
That sounded pretty honest to me and didn't refute that quote.
001sky 14y ago
Apparently raising $950M in your fourth round is two orders of magnitude more "interesting" that $12m. Losses notwitstanding. ;) But all jokes aside, its not uncommon to have BOD compositions of mixed expertise. Having a design or product guy. A Politician, etc. As a group, they need to be effective. But singling out one individual, for "guilt by association" is perhaps stretching a bit. (edit: Unless he was on the audit comittee!) The fact that he sold his shares, in some ways, also not per-se a bad sign if it reflected his views (it became public information). This is signalling to the public, and seems consistent with his other expressed opinions.
ovatsug25 14y ago
Groupon actually pivoted to cater to small business management now that I think about it. This dosen't mean they were successful at it, but I wonder whether Jason had anything to do with that. Groupon might be able to recover and survive as a company but I don't think the VC's will make it with a big return.
klochner 14y ago
Jason made it pretty clear that he was joining the Groupon board: * as a personal favor to Andrew Mason * to get some board experience He emphasized: * he had not changed his stance on bootstrapping companies * his board involvement was not an endorsement of groupon * he sold his shares when given the chance So I guess I'm missing the hilarity, other than seeing you try to pick another fight with Jason Fried.
- justjimmy 14y ago
  Thanks for bullet pointing, was going to do the same thing. I wish people would at least read the link they paste, if they intend to use it for their arguments. The link answered/refuted his own 'claims'.
  - wmeredith 14y ago
    I sort of agree with this... However, the saying "If you lay down with dogs, then you get up with fleas" still applies. Even if you publicly disavow the fleas.
- Evbn 14y ago
  Andrew Mason is generally not considered a very upstanding CEO. Why is Fried giving Mason personal favors? Are they cousins?
  - saraid216 14y ago
    Maybe Mason did Fried a favor. That's usually how it works.
  - SatvikBeri 14y ago
    Just a year and a half ago Andrew Mason was actually considered one of the most charismatic CEOs in the business. GroupOn had MASSIVE momentum, and was actually known as the fastest growing company in history. Fried was on GroupOn's board way before any of the investment scandals came up.
  - webwright 14y ago
run4yourlives 14y ago
If anything, that comment just confirms his consistency.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
mratzloff 14y ago
Perhaps. But I don't think that invalidates what he's saying. The idea stands on its own.

by Jd 14y ago

lincolnwebs 14y ago

Congratulations, you brought up JF's Groupon involvement the fastest on this 37Signals link. Well done.

sabat 14y ago
It's relevant.

spitfire 14y ago

Do as I say, not as I do. Ego has this astonishing effect of completely bending[1] the space-time-reality fabric of the universe. 1. Or ripping it apart, depending on how well off you've become and how many sports cars you've bought.

tptacek 14y ago
37signals does not reap millions of dollars of VC investment to staff up huge numbers of people while running their business in the red. But a reader of your comment would be left to wonder whether they do, because you wrote it carelessly.
wlll 14y ago
I can't speak for Jason or comment on his involvement on the board of Groupon, but he does do as he says within 37signals.
batista 14y ago
>Do as I say, not as I do. Which is mighty fine. I'f I'm telling you to be good and I'm bad, them I'm a hypocrite. That doesn't mean that my advice is bad, or that you shouldn't follow it. Follow an advice (or not) by the intrinsic value of it, not by who the one giving it is or what he does.

endtwist 14y ago

I don't know if it's really that odd. Jason's feelings about the way a company should be run may have been at odds with the way Groupon was run. However, that wasn't what Andrew asked Jason to provide guidance on.

Jd 14y ago
The problem is that Jason uses superlatives and buzz words in this interview and elsewhere. Either they just are marketing fluff for his "sustainable" (i.e. buzz word-laden) business, or he actually believes them. However, if he actually believes them, and if Groupon really is "absolutely disgusting," why would have he not only given advice but retained shares in in the company? Personally, I don't even give free advice to things I think are "absolutely disgusting" unless it is to clean up before talking to me, and I'm not sure why we should expect anything different from Jason. Like I said, I'm open to the idea that Jason is simply exaggerating to set his "slow company" apart from the pack, but if I'm going to write a critique it is going to have to be with the words on the page, not my idea of what is going on in Jason's head. edit: will accept a third possibility, that Jason's ideas have grown stronger as he has witnessed Groupon from the inside. 2nd edit: "invested" -> "retained shares in"
- tptacek 14y ago
  I am having a hard time following this comment. Are you suggesting that Jason Fried doesn't run 37signals in the manner he's talking about here? If so, then on information & belief, you're wrong. If you're just saying that you think owning equity in a company not run the way he runs his own company undercuts everything he writes... ok, but what a boring objection to raise.
  - rdl 14y ago
    A board seat is a lot different from just holding equity. I own HPQ, RIMM, and YHOO, and if I had a board seat in any, my push would be for sale and getting rid of everyone above the first layer of management and engineers. (Boardmembers can't do this directly, but can work with shareholders and management, and ultimately hire competent CEOs)

twelvedigits 14y ago

I think you're overestimating the influence of board members. You can judge him based on how he runs his company, not how he participates on one company's board. That's "do as I do."

yesimahuman 14y ago

That sounded pretty honest to me and didn't refute that quote.

001sky 14y ago

Apparently raising $950M in your fourth round is two orders of magnitude more "interesting" that $12m. Losses notwitstanding. ;) But all jokes aside, its not uncommon to have BOD compositions of mixed expertise. Having a design or product guy. A Politician, etc. As a group, they need to be effective. But singling out one individual, for "guilt by association" is perhaps stretching a bit. (edit: Unless he was on the audit comittee!) The fact that he sold his shares, in some ways, also not per-se a bad sign if it reflected his views (it became public information). This is signalling to the public, and seems consistent with his other expressed opinions.

ovatsug25 14y ago

Groupon actually pivoted to cater to small business management now that I think about it. This dosen't mean they were successful at it, but I wonder whether Jason had anything to do with that. Groupon might be able to recover and survive as a company but I don't think the VC's will make it with a big return.

klochner 14y ago

Jason made it pretty clear that he was joining the Groupon board: * as a personal favor to Andrew Mason * to get some board experience He emphasized: * he had not changed his stance on bootstrapping companies * his board involvement was not an endorsement of groupon * he sold his shares when given the chance So I guess I'm missing the hilarity, other than seeing you try to pick another fight with Jason Fried.

justjimmy 14y ago
Thanks for bullet pointing, was going to do the same thing. I wish people would at least read the link they paste, if they intend to use it for their arguments. The link answered/refuted his own 'claims'.
- wmeredith 14y ago
  I sort of agree with this... However, the saying "If you lay down with dogs, then you get up with fleas" still applies. Even if you publicly disavow the fleas.
Evbn 14y ago
Andrew Mason is generally not considered a very upstanding CEO. Why is Fried giving Mason personal favors? Are they cousins?
- saraid216 14y ago
  Maybe Mason did Fried a favor. That's usually how it works.
- SatvikBeri 14y ago
  Just a year and a half ago Andrew Mason was actually considered one of the most charismatic CEOs in the business. GroupOn had MASSIVE momentum, and was actually known as the fastest growing company in history. Fried was on GroupOn's board way before any of the investment scandals came up.
- webwright 14y ago

run4yourlives 14y ago

If anything, that comment just confirms his consistency.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

mratzloff 14y ago

Perhaps. But I don't think that invalidates what he's saying. The idea stands on its own.