41 ms·

37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

468 points by endtwist 14y ago

paulhauggis 14y ago
The long hours mostly has to do with the startup community. They get funding and VC wants to make a profit within a year and get out, at the expense of any long-term goals of the company. The result is 70 or 80 hour work weeks and burnout. The VC don't care because they will be done in the short-term anyway. It's the reason why I refuse to work for startups.
- sabat 14y ago
  This company is not a startup; it's merely a successful small business. the startup community ... get funding and VC wants to make a profit within a year and get out, at the expense of any long-term goals This is not unheard of, but certainly not the norm. Successful VC firms invest of big growth, but over a longer term. Look at the huge VC-backed successes in SV (obvious examples like Google, LinkedIn) and you'll see anything but a build-it-and-flip-it mentality.
  - timjahn 14y ago
    "merely a successful small business." Really? That small business is financially more successful than most crazy ass VC backed startups with the latest photo sharing solution will ever be. </rant>
    - ceejayoz 14y ago
      In fairness, that still doesn't make it a startup.
      - slantyyz 14y ago
        I think after being in business for over a decade, 37signals is way past being called a startup.
      - timjahn 14y ago
        No, it doesn't. But who the hell cares?
      - nanijoe 14y ago
        Pray tell, what would make it a startup?
        Avshalom 14y ago
        losing money
        ceejayoz 14y ago
        They were a startup early on. I think it's safe to say they've transitioned out of that at this point, just as Google, Amazon, etc. have.
        petercooper 14y ago
        I know this'll be a controversial stance but IMHO.. needing to work 5 or 6 days a week to prove the business case, make the business stick, and to scale the business to a point where you have multiple employees and processes that allow you to only work 4 day weeks if you want. Of course, some businesses can run on fewer hours from the start, but many require a lot of sweat and long hours to get the engine running.
    - sabat 14y ago
      That small business is financially more successful Sure. But they're not trying to build the same thing. I think it's mainly a midwestern attitude vs. Californian. Fried just wanted to build a business. Startup founders want to build companies.
      - jeremyjh 14y ago
        Startup founders want to sell companies.
  - campnic 14y ago
    Wow, could we put the mythical "startup" on any more of a pedestal? '... merely a successful small business' as a diminutive to 37Signals? We've really jumped the shark here, haven't we?
  - saraid216 14y ago
    > This company is not a startup; it's merely a successful small business. Startup, n.: A small business that is not successful yet.
- MattRogish 14y ago
  Startups don't have to be VC backed and don't have to work long hours. We aren't and we don't.
- joshu 14y ago
  > VC wants to make a profit within a year Typical returns take 5-7 years for a VC. < 1 year returns tend to be low. You are presenting things you believe as facts. Please don't do that.
- physcab 14y ago
  This isn't exclusive or indicative to startups. I have friends who work at large companies (Apple in particular) who work 90 hour work weeks and are completely miserable.
- harryh 14y ago
  Your understanding of VC timetables is wrong. It's almost unheard of for a VC to book a profit within a year.
andrewhillman 14y ago
Why does this say: 'Its CEO's Model' when it should be 'Its CEO's Role Model'? Seems like the writer is baiting for clicks. It's a little misleading to me.
- ForrestN 14y ago
  You can use "model" to mean an example to follow. For example, "37 signals was the model for my software business" or "she was a model employee."
Jd 14y ago
"To me that’s far more interesting than a tech company that’s hiring a bunch of people, just got their fourth round of financing for 12 million dollars, and they’re still losing money. That’s what everyone talks about as being exciting, but I think that’s an absolutely disgusting scenario when it comes to business." Hilarious given that Jason Fried was on the board of directors of Groupon (his comments on this "disgusting scenario" here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2617160 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2617160).
- lincolnwebs 14y ago
  Congratulations, you brought up JF's Groupon involvement the fastest on this 37Signals link. Well done.
  - sabat 14y ago
    It's relevant.
- spitfire 14y ago
  Do as I say, not as I do. Ego has this astonishing effect of completely bending[1] the space-time-reality fabric of the universe. 1. Or ripping it apart, depending on how well off you've become and how many sports cars you've bought.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    37signals does not reap millions of dollars of VC investment to staff up huge numbers of people while running their business in the red. But a reader of your comment would be left to wonder whether they do, because you wrote it carelessly.
  - wlll 14y ago
    I can't speak for Jason or comment on his involvement on the board of Groupon, but he does do as he says within 37signals.
  - batista 14y ago
zupreme 14y ago
Wow. It almost sounds like he runs his tech startup like a "real" company. Imagine that. ;-)
- flyosity 14y ago
  I think that 37signals has been in business since the late 90s, so I'm not sure I'd qualify a business that's been in business for 13+ years as a startup.
  - loumf 14y ago
    I like Steve Blank's definition of a Startup -- it's an enterprise set up to search for a profitable business model. 37signals is long past that.
    - sabat 14y ago
      It was never that to begin with. Fried wasn't trying to create an enterprise. He just wanted to own a small business. That's what he has.
      - saraid216 14y ago
        An enterprise is not necessarily enterprisey. Some enterprises are fictional starships.
neeleshs 14y ago
I am in line with the thought process. Also, "There’s a great quote by a guy named Ricardo Semler, author of the book Maverick. He said that only two things grow for the sake of growth: businesses and tumors." funny and apt. I am striving to build a sustainable business, without going to VCs, providing tangible benefits to my customers, and without huge ambitions to become a billion dollar company (or even high millions)
whalesalad 14y ago
"I won’t name names. I used to name names. But I think all you have to do is read TechCrunch. Look at what the top stories are, and they’re all about raising money, how many employees they have, and these are metrics that don’t matter. What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well? In the coverage of our industry as a whole, you’ll rarely see stories about treating customers well, about people building a sustainable business. TechCrunch to me is the great place to look to see the sickness in our industry right now." I love this quote. It reflects my sentiments to a T.
- kevin_morrill 14y ago
  I once got to see Jack Welch give a talk and he basically said the same, but about American labor unions. He said if you want job security, the answer is "customers". There is no other shortcut in business.
  - whalesalad 14y ago
    It's what every great organization I have ever been a part of has been about. My current gig, we put the customer first 24x7 and go out of the way to ensure they're comfortable. We're currently one of INC's fastest growing companies two years in a row and hiring new employees daily to meet demand. I just spent 20 minutes writing an email with detailed screenshots of how to add a menu item to a CMS. I can't stand the CMS that this client uses. We inherited it and it blows. They're an awesome client though, nice people, and above else, they're my customer. I have no problem going out of my way to ensure that they've got detailed and easy-to-understand instructions. A startup that some friends and I started a few years ago: schoolrack.com. Our users were teachers from elementary to high-school. You can imagine we dealt with TONS fo technical support requests from both confused parents and teachers. A lot of teachers are still forced to use IE6. Patience and always putting the customer first is what made us successful. Our users adored us. We'd start at a school and overnight every teacher there would be using us. Our users always had nice things to say about us because we always put them first. When I worked in Apple retail, they reinforced the same principles. Understand the customer. Put yourself in their shoes. Frame your questions so that they are not misconstrued. Make technology friendly. Know your customer. If they're coming to you wanting Final Cut and a few Mac Pro's, don't try and offer them lessons on how to use a word processor (exaggeration). Of course not every Apple employee is a saint, and sometimes you have a bad experience. We're humans, after all. But the principles work. Bend over backwards for your customer. Treat every single person you interact with on a day-to-day basis with respect and kindness. Even the UPS who comes to pick up your deliveries.
Acne_Researcher 14y ago
This guy could have built the next Salesforce / google. but he eschewed hiring a sales team. He didn't want that, but still. Failing to achieve your true potential is not something to be bragging about all over the web.
- campnic 14y ago
  Is someone's "true potential" only reached when they chew up employees during 80 hour weeks? When they have a sales team that will do whatever it takes to land the sale including stretching the truth? Is 'true potential' only evaluated based on attainment of maximum dollars per day of business? I don't see how he has failed anything but living up to your idea of achievement which, frankly, seems a lot more shallow then his.
  - ahoyhere 14y ago
    Well it's pretty clear what he means, if you ask me: someone's true potential is only reached when a guy named Acne_Researcher says it is.
    - Acne_Researcher 14y ago
      I felt that with their ideas, talent, and overall ability, they could have been a company useful to society as Google. Instead, they have focused on their niche and done very well. It was their choice to stay small and avoid greatness, and I don't criticize them for it, but I think that bragging about it all over the place is a little tasteless.
      - ionforce 14y ago
        Maybe he's trying to paint a picture where everyone doesn't need to aspire to be the next Google. Different strokes.
      - saraid216 14y ago
        You have feelings. That's great! Welcome to humanity. Do you have logic? Data? A Delphic oracle? Perspectives into a parallel universe where they hired a sales team? Something more substantial than feelings?
taphangum 14y ago
Awesome
davidw 14y ago
> Actually, my cleaning lady, for example, she’s great. There's something a bit... I don't know quite how to put it. Let's just say that I bet she'd willingly trade places with him, cash out, and go enjoy herself instead of cleaning up after other people day in and day out. (Edit to change the wording just a bit) > The other interesting thing about restaurants is you could have a dozen Italian restaurants in the city and they can all be successful. It’s not like in the tech world, where everyone wants to beat each other up, and there’s one winner. That's because the economics of a highly local business are very different from one that can have customers all over the world. Also: restaurants fail all the time - it's a stressful business to be in, and not generally the sort of relaxed, easy-going picture he makes it sound like. You can bet that most restaurants do not have the option of doing 4 days a week, unless they have big margins the other days, which means they probably have something very special about them. I admire and respect those guys, but there's something too glib about some of their communications that turns my cynic sense on. Edit: furthermore... live and let live, no? I'm more interested in a 37 signals style business myself, but let the people in Silicon Valley do their thing even if it doesn't float your boat. It'll all work out. As one example, I think the world is better off with PG running Y Combinator instead of having slogged on with Viaweb.
- citricsquid 14y ago
  > There's something a bit... I don't know quite how to put it. Let's just say that I bet she'd willingly trade places with him, cash out, and go enjoy herself instead of cleaning up other people's crap day in and day out. My mother isn't a cleaner (she's a nurse) but I talked with her before about whether or not if she had the chance she would quit her job and sit on the beach all day doing whatever she wanted and she said that no, she would never be able to stop working because it has been a part of her entire life and if she was going to quit her job and do anything she would open a book shop (I think it was a book shop). I think for a lot of people work is a part of who they are and it's not as simple as just taking money and spending life on a beach, I'm sure the cleaner would love financial freedom but I would suspect she would keep working. For a lot of people they don't have things they enjoy that have some sort of output (for most of HN that's programming, or design) so working is all they have to feel like they have value in the world. Maybe his cleaner has financial freedom already (saving, inheritance etc) and chooses to work.
nicholassmith 14y ago
When my Dad decided to start his own business his goal was to work for himself and make enough money to live comfortably. He's achieved that, he could push and try stretch it to the next level and make even more money and become more successful but he realised he's happy with the money he's got and not having to deal with anything extra. When anyone starts a business you can shoot for living a nice comfortable life (and lets be honest if you're running a business making millions per year, you've nailed it), or you can push and push to become the business. Both have chance of failure, both require devotion. I'd take the same route as 37signals. Having enough money to live comfortably and enjoy life sound much better than the constant grind to get to the next boss level.
medinismo 14y ago
love the term "we are reaching Peak Talent". It think we are already there
phatbyte 14y ago
I can totally subscribe what Jason said here. One time someone said that I wasn't "startup" material because I wasn't open to work 80 hours per week. They said that like it was a bad thing :), fast forward a few years and their company is now dead and I'm now doing my own thing steady and profitable.
xenen 14y ago
Absolutely amazing and a rare voice of reason in our industry. If only more companies would adopt this kind of mentality of building sustainable businesses.
dr_ 14y ago
Profits are without question important. Bootstrapping I'm not so sure about. There are many profitable companies today that were never bootstrapped, like Apple and Google and tons of others. I'd be concerned that bootstrapping in this day and age might limit how big a company you actually do become, esp since you are competing against entrenched players.
stanfordkid 14y ago
lifestyle businesses are great. but to make real money you need to scale -- I think this stuff is okay for the size of business they are aiming for but if you want to build something that can be acquired for 500m+ or IPO then you need to do some more strategic thinking.
- aswanson 14y ago
  Several million a year isn't 'real' money?
apetkov 14y ago
So nice there are more and more companies which understand that keeping their employees in comfort is so essential for the long-term success. Giving more freedom and spare time, makes people more productive during work time. No stress, no pressure = more job done. I also admire companies, that have understood that a 6-hour working day, would be more productive than the 8-hour, since time for distraction is reduced to significantly.
jamwt 14y ago
I've read a lot of Jason's stuff and he has a lot of insightful things to say about running a successful small technology business. He probably understands it about as well as anyone on earth. The part of the rhetoric I'm not as fond of is this false dichotomy that he often raises of "either small business is right or big-startups are right". Both can be right--they just have different goals. And there are strong relationships and dependencies between each type that make it particularly disingenuous to slander each other. It reminds me a bit of the "you didn't build that" hubbub happening in American politics lately. There seems to be a "I did this" hubris, as you create high-quality web services catering to small teams. Let's get real: you are building web services consumed by a browser (Netscape) on someone's Macbook Pro (Apple); your data found its way there over some serious switching infrastructure (Cisco); you stock your offices with goods from the best online retailers--oh yeah, and they host a bunch of your bulk data too (Amazon); your site is indexed by the major search engines and you expose your brand to potential customers via sophisticated advertising networks (Google); your keep your friends and fans in the loop on what your business is up to via massive social networks (Twitter). Many of these companies were ambitious, they had low probabilities of success, they had much higher capital needs and a tighter window to hit the market.. than a slightly better product management system for small teams. But these VC-powered longshots--the lucky few winners--now form the beating heart of our industry. They provide good jobs to hundreds of thousands of people. And.. would 37 signals even exist without them? Jason wants to make great money and have a good business and take Friday off. That is fine, that is seriously great. I'm not sure why the tone is so defensive, b/c, really, who's attacking that? That's a damn good way to go. But some people want to "make a dent in the world". They need some money to do that! And they might fail! And rich guys are willing to gamble on the outcome! Who cares? It's audacious fucking fun to try to change the world, and sometimes it works. Afterwards, we can take a shower and feel clean and wholesome about the birth of 38 signals.
- zizee 14y ago
  I'm not sure why the tone is so defensive, b/c, really, who's attacking that? My guess it is in response to some quarters not respecting "lifestyle business" startups. There ARE (or were) people attacking that.

468 points by endtwist 14y ago

The long hours mostly has to do with the startup community. They get funding and VC wants to make a profit within a year and get out, at the expense of any long-term goals of the company. The result is 70 or 80 hour work weeks and burnout. The VC don't care because they will be done in the short-term anyway. It's the reason why I refuse to work for startups.

sabat 14y ago
This company is not a startup; it's merely a successful small business. the startup community ... get funding and VC wants to make a profit within a year and get out, at the expense of any long-term goals This is not unheard of, but certainly not the norm. Successful VC firms invest of big growth, but over a longer term. Look at the huge VC-backed successes in SV (obvious examples like Google, LinkedIn) and you'll see anything but a build-it-and-flip-it mentality.
- timjahn 14y ago
  "merely a successful small business." Really? That small business is financially more successful than most crazy ass VC backed startups with the latest photo sharing solution will ever be. </rant>
  - ceejayoz 14y ago
    In fairness, that still doesn't make it a startup.
    - slantyyz 14y ago
      I think after being in business for over a decade, 37signals is way past being called a startup.
    - timjahn 14y ago
      No, it doesn't. But who the hell cares?
    - nanijoe 14y ago
      Pray tell, what would make it a startup?
      - Avshalom 14y ago
        losing money
      - ceejayoz 14y ago
        They were a startup early on. I think it's safe to say they've transitioned out of that at this point, just as Google, Amazon, etc. have.
      - petercooper 14y ago
        I know this'll be a controversial stance but IMHO.. needing to work 5 or 6 days a week to prove the business case, make the business stick, and to scale the business to a point where you have multiple employees and processes that allow you to only work 4 day weeks if you want. Of course, some businesses can run on fewer hours from the start, but many require a lot of sweat and long hours to get the engine running.
  - sabat 14y ago
    That small business is financially more successful Sure. But they're not trying to build the same thing. I think it's mainly a midwestern attitude vs. Californian. Fried just wanted to build a business. Startup founders want to build companies.
    - jeremyjh 14y ago
      Startup founders want to sell companies.
- campnic 14y ago
  Wow, could we put the mythical "startup" on any more of a pedestal? '... merely a successful small business' as a diminutive to 37Signals? We've really jumped the shark here, haven't we?
- saraid216 14y ago
  > This company is not a startup; it's merely a successful small business. Startup, n.: A small business that is not successful yet.
MattRogish 14y ago
Startups don't have to be VC backed and don't have to work long hours. We aren't and we don't.
joshu 14y ago
> VC wants to make a profit within a year Typical returns take 5-7 years for a VC. < 1 year returns tend to be low. You are presenting things you believe as facts. Please don't do that.
physcab 14y ago
This isn't exclusive or indicative to startups. I have friends who work at large companies (Apple in particular) who work 90 hour work weeks and are completely miserable.
harryh 14y ago
Your understanding of VC timetables is wrong. It's almost unheard of for a VC to book a profit within a year.

andrewhillman 14y ago

Why does this say: 'Its CEO's Model' when it should be 'Its CEO's Role Model'? Seems like the writer is baiting for clicks. It's a little misleading to me.

ForrestN 14y ago
You can use "model" to mean an example to follow. For example, "37 signals was the model for my software business" or "she was a model employee."

Jd 14y ago

"To me that’s far more interesting than a tech company that’s hiring a bunch of people, just got their fourth round of financing for 12 million dollars, and they’re still losing money. That’s what everyone talks about as being exciting, but I think that’s an absolutely disgusting scenario when it comes to business." Hilarious given that Jason Fried was on the board of directors of Groupon (his comments on this "disgusting scenario" here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2617160 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2617160).

lincolnwebs 14y ago
Congratulations, you brought up JF's Groupon involvement the fastest on this 37Signals link. Well done.
- sabat 14y ago
  It's relevant.
spitfire 14y ago
Do as I say, not as I do. Ego has this astonishing effect of completely bending[1] the space-time-reality fabric of the universe. 1. Or ripping it apart, depending on how well off you've become and how many sports cars you've bought.
- tptacek 14y ago
  37signals does not reap millions of dollars of VC investment to staff up huge numbers of people while running their business in the red. But a reader of your comment would be left to wonder whether they do, because you wrote it carelessly.
- wlll 14y ago
  I can't speak for Jason or comment on his involvement on the board of Groupon, but he does do as he says within 37signals.
- batista 14y ago

zupreme 14y ago

Wow. It almost sounds like he runs his tech startup like a "real" company. Imagine that. ;-)

flyosity 14y ago
I think that 37signals has been in business since the late 90s, so I'm not sure I'd qualify a business that's been in business for 13+ years as a startup.
- loumf 14y ago
  I like Steve Blank's definition of a Startup -- it's an enterprise set up to search for a profitable business model. 37signals is long past that.
  - sabat 14y ago
    It was never that to begin with. Fried wasn't trying to create an enterprise. He just wanted to own a small business. That's what he has.
    - saraid216 14y ago
      An enterprise is not necessarily enterprisey. Some enterprises are fictional starships.

neeleshs 14y ago

I am in line with the thought process. Also, "There’s a great quote by a guy named Ricardo Semler, author of the book Maverick. He said that only two things grow for the sake of growth: businesses and tumors." funny and apt. I am striving to build a sustainable business, without going to VCs, providing tangible benefits to my customers, and without huge ambitions to become a billion dollar company (or even high millions)

whalesalad 14y ago

"I won’t name names. I used to name names. But I think all you have to do is read TechCrunch. Look at what the top stories are, and they’re all about raising money, how many employees they have, and these are metrics that don’t matter. What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well? In the coverage of our industry as a whole, you’ll rarely see stories about treating customers well, about people building a sustainable business. TechCrunch to me is the great place to look to see the sickness in our industry right now." I love this quote. It reflects my sentiments to a T.

kevin_morrill 14y ago
I once got to see Jack Welch give a talk and he basically said the same, but about American labor unions. He said if you want job security, the answer is "customers". There is no other shortcut in business.
- whalesalad 14y ago
  It's what every great organization I have ever been a part of has been about. My current gig, we put the customer first 24x7 and go out of the way to ensure they're comfortable. We're currently one of INC's fastest growing companies two years in a row and hiring new employees daily to meet demand. I just spent 20 minutes writing an email with detailed screenshots of how to add a menu item to a CMS. I can't stand the CMS that this client uses. We inherited it and it blows. They're an awesome client though, nice people, and above else, they're my customer. I have no problem going out of my way to ensure that they've got detailed and easy-to-understand instructions. A startup that some friends and I started a few years ago: schoolrack.com. Our users were teachers from elementary to high-school. You can imagine we dealt with TONS fo technical support requests from both confused parents and teachers. A lot of teachers are still forced to use IE6. Patience and always putting the customer first is what made us successful. Our users adored us. We'd start at a school and overnight every teacher there would be using us. Our users always had nice things to say about us because we always put them first. When I worked in Apple retail, they reinforced the same principles. Understand the customer. Put yourself in their shoes. Frame your questions so that they are not misconstrued. Make technology friendly. Know your customer. If they're coming to you wanting Final Cut and a few Mac Pro's, don't try and offer them lessons on how to use a word processor (exaggeration). Of course not every Apple employee is a saint, and sometimes you have a bad experience. We're humans, after all. But the principles work. Bend over backwards for your customer. Treat every single person you interact with on a day-to-day basis with respect and kindness. Even the UPS who comes to pick up your deliveries.

Acne_Researcher 14y ago

This guy could have built the next Salesforce / google. but he eschewed hiring a sales team. He didn't want that, but still. Failing to achieve your true potential is not something to be bragging about all over the web.

campnic 14y ago
Is someone's "true potential" only reached when they chew up employees during 80 hour weeks? When they have a sales team that will do whatever it takes to land the sale including stretching the truth? Is 'true potential' only evaluated based on attainment of maximum dollars per day of business? I don't see how he has failed anything but living up to your idea of achievement which, frankly, seems a lot more shallow then his.
- ahoyhere 14y ago
  Well it's pretty clear what he means, if you ask me: someone's true potential is only reached when a guy named Acne_Researcher says it is.
  - Acne_Researcher 14y ago
    I felt that with their ideas, talent, and overall ability, they could have been a company useful to society as Google. Instead, they have focused on their niche and done very well. It was their choice to stay small and avoid greatness, and I don't criticize them for it, but I think that bragging about it all over the place is a little tasteless.
    - ionforce 14y ago
      Maybe he's trying to paint a picture where everyone doesn't need to aspire to be the next Google. Different strokes.
    - saraid216 14y ago
      You have feelings. That's great! Welcome to humanity. Do you have logic? Data? A Delphic oracle? Perspectives into a parallel universe where they hired a sales team? Something more substantial than feelings?

taphangum 14y ago

Awesome

davidw 14y ago

> Actually, my cleaning lady, for example, she’s great. There's something a bit... I don't know quite how to put it. Let's just say that I bet she'd willingly trade places with him, cash out, and go enjoy herself instead of cleaning up after other people day in and day out. (Edit to change the wording just a bit) > The other interesting thing about restaurants is you could have a dozen Italian restaurants in the city and they can all be successful. It’s not like in the tech world, where everyone wants to beat each other up, and there’s one winner. That's because the economics of a highly local business are very different from one that can have customers all over the world. Also: restaurants fail all the time - it's a stressful business to be in, and not generally the sort of relaxed, easy-going picture he makes it sound like. You can bet that most restaurants do not have the option of doing 4 days a week, unless they have big margins the other days, which means they probably have something very special about them. I admire and respect those guys, but there's something too glib about some of their communications that turns my cynic sense on. Edit: furthermore... live and let live, no? I'm more interested in a 37 signals style business myself, but let the people in Silicon Valley do their thing even if it doesn't float your boat. It'll all work out. As one example, I think the world is better off with PG running Y Combinator instead of having slogged on with Viaweb.

citricsquid 14y ago
> There's something a bit... I don't know quite how to put it. Let's just say that I bet she'd willingly trade places with him, cash out, and go enjoy herself instead of cleaning up other people's crap day in and day out. My mother isn't a cleaner (she's a nurse) but I talked with her before about whether or not if she had the chance she would quit her job and sit on the beach all day doing whatever she wanted and she said that no, she would never be able to stop working because it has been a part of her entire life and if she was going to quit her job and do anything she would open a book shop (I think it was a book shop). I think for a lot of people work is a part of who they are and it's not as simple as just taking money and spending life on a beach, I'm sure the cleaner would love financial freedom but I would suspect she would keep working. For a lot of people they don't have things they enjoy that have some sort of output (for most of HN that's programming, or design) so working is all they have to feel like they have value in the world. Maybe his cleaner has financial freedom already (saving, inheritance etc) and chooses to work.

nicholassmith 14y ago

When my Dad decided to start his own business his goal was to work for himself and make enough money to live comfortably. He's achieved that, he could push and try stretch it to the next level and make even more money and become more successful but he realised he's happy with the money he's got and not having to deal with anything extra. When anyone starts a business you can shoot for living a nice comfortable life (and lets be honest if you're running a business making millions per year, you've nailed it), or you can push and push to become the business. Both have chance of failure, both require devotion. I'd take the same route as 37signals. Having enough money to live comfortably and enjoy life sound much better than the constant grind to get to the next boss level.

medinismo 14y ago

love the term "we are reaching Peak Talent". It think we are already there

phatbyte 14y ago

I can totally subscribe what Jason said here. One time someone said that I wasn't "startup" material because I wasn't open to work 80 hours per week. They said that like it was a bad thing :), fast forward a few years and their company is now dead and I'm now doing my own thing steady and profitable.

xenen 14y ago

Absolutely amazing and a rare voice of reason in our industry. If only more companies would adopt this kind of mentality of building sustainable businesses.

dr_ 14y ago

Profits are without question important. Bootstrapping I'm not so sure about. There are many profitable companies today that were never bootstrapped, like Apple and Google and tons of others. I'd be concerned that bootstrapping in this day and age might limit how big a company you actually do become, esp since you are competing against entrenched players.

stanfordkid 14y ago

lifestyle businesses are great. but to make real money you need to scale -- I think this stuff is okay for the size of business they are aiming for but if you want to build something that can be acquired for 500m+ or IPO then you need to do some more strategic thinking.

aswanson 14y ago
Several million a year isn't 'real' money?

apetkov 14y ago

So nice there are more and more companies which understand that keeping their employees in comfort is so essential for the long-term success. Giving more freedom and spare time, makes people more productive during work time. No stress, no pressure = more job done. I also admire companies, that have understood that a 6-hour working day, would be more productive than the 8-hour, since time for distraction is reduced to significantly.

jamwt 14y ago

I've read a lot of Jason's stuff and he has a lot of insightful things to say about running a successful small technology business. He probably understands it about as well as anyone on earth. The part of the rhetoric I'm not as fond of is this false dichotomy that he often raises of "either small business is right or big-startups are right". Both can be right--they just have different goals. And there are strong relationships and dependencies between each type that make it particularly disingenuous to slander each other. It reminds me a bit of the "you didn't build that" hubbub happening in American politics lately. There seems to be a "I did this" hubris, as you create high-quality web services catering to small teams. Let's get real: you are building web services consumed by a browser (Netscape) on someone's Macbook Pro (Apple); your data found its way there over some serious switching infrastructure (Cisco); you stock your offices with goods from the best online retailers--oh yeah, and they host a bunch of your bulk data too (Amazon); your site is indexed by the major search engines and you expose your brand to potential customers via sophisticated advertising networks (Google); your keep your friends and fans in the loop on what your business is up to via massive social networks (Twitter). Many of these companies were ambitious, they had low probabilities of success, they had much higher capital needs and a tighter window to hit the market.. than a slightly better product management system for small teams. But these VC-powered longshots--the lucky few winners--now form the beating heart of our industry. They provide good jobs to hundreds of thousands of people. And.. would 37 signals even exist without them? Jason wants to make great money and have a good business and take Friday off. That is fine, that is seriously great. I'm not sure why the tone is so defensive, b/c, really, who's attacking that? That's a damn good way to go. But some people want to "make a dent in the world". They need some money to do that! And they might fail! And rich guys are willing to gamble on the outcome! Who cares? It's audacious fucking fun to try to change the world, and sometimes it works. Afterwards, we can take a shower and feel clean and wholesome about the birth of 38 signals.

zizee 14y ago
I'm not sure why the tone is so defensive, b/c, really, who's attacking that? My guess it is in response to some quarters not respecting "lifestyle business" startups. There ARE (or were) people attacking that.