5 ms·

I have seen a couple of these in Berkeley. They were all the rage and still are in some ways. I personally was initially enthusiastic. However, I think there i

I have seen a couple of these in Berkeley. They were all the rage and still are in some ways. I personally was initially enthusiastic. However, I think there is much easier ways to get the benefits. For example, by adding trees and landscaping in Parks, medians and other public spaces. Once a forest is added to an area, it becomes completely inaccessible because of how dense it grows. All of the ones I have seen are completely fenced off.

korse 1y ago
Doesn't seem bad to me. Grow the forest and then let the maintainers cut a miniature trail network. People don't need to tromp all over vegetation for it to be beneficial.
pphysch 1y ago
The density and inaccessibility (to large birds and mammals) is critical for sensitive species like butterflies. I'd wager we'd see a resurgence in some declining insect populations if there were more dense pockets of forest.
- frereubu 1y ago
  This is a point made well in the film Wilding - https://www.wildingmovie.com/ https://www.wildingmovie.com/ - about a rewilding project in the UK. You need change and open ground for any biodiversity benefits. It's a bit like the close-planted commercial forestry fir plantations that are entirely silent and dead aside from the trees themselves.
  - pphysch 1y ago
    Commercial forests have a lot of trunks but aren't particularly dense, and probably have terrible biodiversity by design. When I say dense, I mean a human needs to be constantly swinging a machete and scrambling to get anywhere. Such forests are very rare in USA because even the vast "wilderness" is man-made for ranching, hunting, hiking, sightseeing.
toast0 1y ago
> However, I think there is much easier ways to get the benefits. For example, by adding trees and landscaping in Parks, medians and other public spaces. This is a method to add trees and landscaping. > Once a forest is added to an area, it becomes completely inaccessible because of how dense it grows. All of the ones I have seen are completely fenced off. It sounds like they're completely inaccessible because of fencing and density. Fencing might be hard to remove, but density at ground level tends to decrease as a forest grows; the canopy blocks sun and lower tree limbs may drop or become less productive and bushier plants have a harder time. After the forest gets somewhat established, pathways are easier to form (although brambles and thickets may need help to clear), and thinning the trees can help the remaining trees thrive. My parcel has a woods on the edges, and it wasn't too bad to establish paths in most of it, especially with a little help from goats to clean up the ground clutter. Similarly, there are trails in a nearby well established reserve, but you could easily go off trail if you had a reason too... Some bits are too dense to pass through, but most of it is fine. Your local forests likely grow a bit differently than mine though.
jeffbee 1y ago
The one at King Middle School in Berkeley grew almost instantly. I'd read a report about how much biomass they have harvested there.
nothercastle 1y ago
If you want to decrease the value of your land plant trees so some nimby can come in designated it as protected habitat and then prevent you from maintaining or cutting any of them down. Tree law is almost as bad as HOA laws. Even if it’s not designed once a tree gets too big you loose any right to manage or maintain it
- meindnoch 1y ago
  "Oh no, my trees have been attacked by an unknown disease and they're all dead now! I guess we'll have to cut them down :'(" A well placed hole with a 1/2 inch drill bit, and 100% glyphosate does wonders to a tree. Make sure the hole is slanted downwards, so the glyphosate stays inside to be transported by the cambium.
  - nothercastle 1y ago
    If you get caught they will make you replace them and or pay a 10-50k fine.
    - meindnoch 1y ago
      Zero chance if you do it right. Another option if you don't want to leave marks on the tree is to pour Tordon (picloram) at the base of the tree.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - humblebeekeeper 1y ago
    Sociopathic post, tbh.
    - meindnoch 1y ago
      Killing a tree in my own land is "sociopathic"? That's a pretty loose interpretation of the word.
beambot 1y ago
Manicured trees & landscaped parks take a lot of active effort and expense, whereas forests are naturally homeostatic. The biodiversity in the latter is also beneficial to flora & fauna compared to the overly-sterile environment of traditional landscaping.
nxobject 1y ago
> Once a forest is added to an area, it becomes completely inaccessible because of how dense it grows. All of the ones I have seen are completely fenced off. I agree: I think the podcast touched on this, but “racing towards the densest forest you can find” sometimes makes no sense - there may have simply been grassland or shrubland before human habitation that supported its own unique flora and fauna!
KaiserPro 1y ago
This method is there to create dense forest quickly, with minimal onward maintenance. It sounds like your describing parkland, which is a different beast entirely

korse 1y ago

Doesn't seem bad to me. Grow the forest and then let the maintainers cut a miniature trail network. People don't need to tromp all over vegetation for it to be beneficial.

pphysch 1y ago

The density and inaccessibility (to large birds and mammals) is critical for sensitive species like butterflies. I'd wager we'd see a resurgence in some declining insect populations if there were more dense pockets of forest.

frereubu 1y ago
This is a point made well in the film Wilding - https://www.wildingmovie.com/ https://www.wildingmovie.com/ - about a rewilding project in the UK. You need change and open ground for any biodiversity benefits. It's a bit like the close-planted commercial forestry fir plantations that are entirely silent and dead aside from the trees themselves.
- pphysch 1y ago
  Commercial forests have a lot of trunks but aren't particularly dense, and probably have terrible biodiversity by design. When I say dense, I mean a human needs to be constantly swinging a machete and scrambling to get anywhere. Such forests are very rare in USA because even the vast "wilderness" is man-made for ranching, hunting, hiking, sightseeing.

toast0 1y ago

> However, I think there is much easier ways to get the benefits. For example, by adding trees and landscaping in Parks, medians and other public spaces. This is a method to add trees and landscaping. > Once a forest is added to an area, it becomes completely inaccessible because of how dense it grows. All of the ones I have seen are completely fenced off. It sounds like they're completely inaccessible because of fencing and density. Fencing might be hard to remove, but density at ground level tends to decrease as a forest grows; the canopy blocks sun and lower tree limbs may drop or become less productive and bushier plants have a harder time. After the forest gets somewhat established, pathways are easier to form (although brambles and thickets may need help to clear), and thinning the trees can help the remaining trees thrive. My parcel has a woods on the edges, and it wasn't too bad to establish paths in most of it, especially with a little help from goats to clean up the ground clutter. Similarly, there are trails in a nearby well established reserve, but you could easily go off trail if you had a reason too... Some bits are too dense to pass through, but most of it is fine. Your local forests likely grow a bit differently than mine though.

jeffbee 1y ago

The one at King Middle School in Berkeley grew almost instantly. I'd read a report about how much biomass they have harvested there.

nothercastle 1y ago

If you want to decrease the value of your land plant trees so some nimby can come in designated it as protected habitat and then prevent you from maintaining or cutting any of them down. Tree law is almost as bad as HOA laws. Even if it’s not designed once a tree gets too big you loose any right to manage or maintain it

meindnoch 1y ago
"Oh no, my trees have been attacked by an unknown disease and they're all dead now! I guess we'll have to cut them down :'(" A well placed hole with a 1/2 inch drill bit, and 100% glyphosate does wonders to a tree. Make sure the hole is slanted downwards, so the glyphosate stays inside to be transported by the cambium.
- nothercastle 1y ago
  If you get caught they will make you replace them and or pay a 10-50k fine.
  - meindnoch 1y ago
    Zero chance if you do it right. Another option if you don't want to leave marks on the tree is to pour Tordon (picloram) at the base of the tree.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- humblebeekeeper 1y ago
  Sociopathic post, tbh.
  - meindnoch 1y ago
    Killing a tree in my own land is "sociopathic"? That's a pretty loose interpretation of the word.

beambot 1y ago

Manicured trees & landscaped parks take a lot of active effort and expense, whereas forests are naturally homeostatic. The biodiversity in the latter is also beneficial to flora & fauna compared to the overly-sterile environment of traditional landscaping.

nxobject 1y ago

> Once a forest is added to an area, it becomes completely inaccessible because of how dense it grows. All of the ones I have seen are completely fenced off. I agree: I think the podcast touched on this, but “racing towards the densest forest you can find” sometimes makes no sense - there may have simply been grassland or shrubland before human habitation that supported its own unique flora and fauna!

KaiserPro 1y ago

This method is there to create dense forest quickly, with minimal onward maintenance. It sounds like your describing parkland, which is a different beast entirely